Big Pharma, Gut Health, and Longevity | Dr. Will Cole on Thriving in a Toxic World

It's unsustainable the way that we are living today. The statistics speak for themselves. 50 million Americans having an autoimmune condition, infertility is of epidemic levels, about 93% of the United States has a massive metabolic problem somewhere on the insulin resistance spectrum, type 2 diabetes being the sort of the farther end of that. I could go on and on. Heart disease, cancer. It is unsustainable. These are existential issues.

It's even more polarizing and different when you go to Europe, because if you're looking at the food in Italy and a label of food, the exact same product in the US, has so many more chemicals, so many more artificial ingredients, so much more sugar.

Our soil microbiome— it's the things we're spraying on our foods, it's the pro— it's the additives that are added after it's grown. These are proverbial check engine lights to say, look, yeah, you're aging faster than you need to. Just because something's common doesn't necessarily make it normal.

Hey everyone, welcome to Dr. Josh Axe Show. I am your host, Dr. Axe, and each and every week on this show, we dive deep into the science and principles behind how to grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Today I'll be interviewing my friend Dr. Will Cole. Dr. Will is a doctor of functional medicine. He was one of the first doctors to go online and start taking care of patients from all over the world virtually. He's a New York Times bestselling author of books like Gut Feelings, Ketotarian, and The Inflammation Spectrum, one of my favorites. And today we're gonna talk about all things longevity, women's and male hormone health, gut health, and so much more. Dr. Will. High five, man. Good to see you again.

Good seeing you. Is this the first time that we're recording in person? I think after all these years, it is. We're always remote. I'm glad this is— the day is finally here. Yeah, we're always hanging out offline, but now it's just like we're in front of millions of people.

So good. That's what we're doing with the podcast now. I wanted to do— I, I love this, being able to connect with friends and be able to hang in person. And so it's so, so good. But I was so jealous this week of you. I saw you, uh, in Milwaukee doing an event. And I know that this is something that people really, a lot of people feel strongly about, you and I both do, is trying to get America healthy again. So many people today are suffering with chronic disease. And part of it is due to a lot of government regulations. I mean, I saw a friend of ours, Vani Hari, yesterday. She was actually speaking at a Senate with RFK Jr. And they were going through, and one of the things she did is she held up a bag of Fruit Loops.

Yeah, I saw that.

From Canada.

Yes.

And another from the US. And the difference was absolutely crazy. Yeah. And so talk to me a little bit about sort of your involvement, sort of going between the, and not taking political sides, just saying we've gotta help these kids, we've gotta help America get healthy again. Yeah. Share with me a little bit about your passion, your thoughts about what's going on right now with that.

Yeah, I mean, we're, it's unsustainable the way that we are living today. The statistics speak for themselves, with 50 million Americans having an autoimmune condition, infertility is of epidemic levels, about 93% of the United States has a massive metabolic problem, somewhere on the insulin resistance spectrum, type 2 diabetes being the sort of the farther end of that. I could go on and on, heart disease, cancer, it is unsustainable, these are existential issues. So this should be a completely nonpartisan issue. The fact that it's been politicized, or the fact that there's any pushback on this, says more about the people that are pushing back than us talking about the health of everybody, no matter who you are. As just a human being, I want you to live a long, healthy life. And the statistics say we're not. So what can we do about it? And we need to, to know what we're up against to do something about it. So yeah, there's just a coalition, I think, of different people from different backgrounds within health and wellness and science and nutrition that what to— we're asking the questions. And we're not only asking the questions, but people like you and I are seeing these things on the ground with people.

Yeah.

And yeah, we look at the labs, and these are largely overcomeable, healable, reversible things, but there's just not conversation. So yeah, we're— look, I'm in health, I'm staying in my lane, but this is— and I don't see this as a political issue other than it's a— it's really a human issue that is we are having conversations within the political sphere.

Yeah, yeah. I was watching this, uh, this interview with RFK, and he was talking about how, uh, the autism spectrum disorders— I mean, then how the numbers have grown. I mean, it's absolutely mind-boggling. It went from something like 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 32. I mean, the numbers are crazy. And he was just talking about how— I mean, you think about those kids, and, you know, there— I think there are multiple root causes. I think— I'm not going to name all of them because Maybe if I name one of them, this won't be able to be aired. But, but anyways, there's a lot of things toxicity-wise, things that affect our immune systems, and some of it could be food, could be antibiotics, and other things that I think have a negative impact on the immune system. He was just talking about how a lot of this is preventable. That's the whole thing. A lot of it's preventable. And, you know, I know recently Chelsea and I, we went on a, on a trip to Europe this past summer, and it's the same, you know, we were talking about this with Canada, but it's even, it's, it's even more polarizing and different when you go to Europe. Because if you're looking at the food in Italy and a label the exact same product in the US has so many more chemicals, so many more artificial ingredients, so much more sugar compared to what you're going to get in Europe. And that's just— it's just radically different.

It is. And hopefully we can do better. I see this with telehealth patients where they can go, go to Europe and they could get away with things eating-wise that they could never get away with here.

That's right.

And, um, it's to the— to your point, the things you're talking about, it's our soil microbiome, it's the things we're spraying on our foods, it's the pro— it's the additives that are added after it's grown. So it's a confluence of factors. But the reality is, it's just these, these are questions that are not even looked at.

We—

yeah, people, no matter who you are, if you're not in health and wellness, if you're just like the average person out there, you're gonna say, yeah, the statistics speak for themselves. But it's not enough to say, yeah, we see more and more people have chronic disease, we have a chronic disease epidemic, more and more kids are having food sensitivities and allergies, autoimmune problems. But why? And I think that there— we have to go the extra level and say why, because there's a reason. There's a reason for it, and it's multifaceted like you touched on. Um, but yeah, if we're not going to have this conversation, who is? Because yeah, this is what we do.

You know, when I, when I first opened up my practice in, in Nashville, when I saw patients in person, I, um, I was so shocked by some of the— how many people were coming in with certain types of conditions. When I see people now, it's almost 20 years later, it's very different. I mean, there are certain conditions that are so much more prevalent today than there were 20 years ago. What are some of the most— as we talk about processed food, a lot of chemicals like glyphosate, all these things that we're exposed to now— what are some of the conditions over the last 10 years that you're saying, okay, I've seen this in my clinical practice, it's increased due to a lot of the toxins and some of the other things we're exposed to?

Uh, autoimmune conditions as a whole, and that's a broad umbrella of things. I mean, as I mentioned about, it's estimated that 50 million Americans have an autoimmune condition. Millions more are somewhere on this autoimmune inflammation spectrum, but most common ones are Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroiditis, lupus, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's, MS, Sjögren's, rheumatoid arthritis. Those are the most common ones out there. I probably missed a few, but I would say we've seen— and the statistics show we're seeing an increase of this around the world— autoimmune conditions. But I would say a specific type of autoimmune condition that I am seeing more since COVID since 2020, the pandemic, is, um, POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. People that have dysautonomia, yeah, the nervous system's dysregulated. And now studies are substantiating that, that a broad swath of people after COVID don't recover, and it triggers— the virus triggers an autoimmune condition. It can trigger other autoimmune conditions, but a bigger percentage of them, uh, have this sort of vertigo, uh, nervous system dysregulation, heart palpitations, anxiety, brain fog, fatigue. And there's an inflammatory component, there's a histamine component to it. So I would say if you look at the— a very specific thing that I've seen growing over the past, not just 10 years, of the past 5 years, 4 years, it is, uh, POTS specifically and dysautonomia.

You know, one of the things is I've studied a lot of Chinese medicine over the years, and I know this is something you've, you've jumped into as well, is, is that when we look at what COVID did to people, for the most part, it caused the blood to congeal and get sticky. Sticky. And this is why it's causing myocarditis. It tends to be connected with heart issues, but also issues regarding the nervous system, because when your blood gets sticky like that, it causes some of those issues. That's why some of these supplements or herbs or foods that help with that, like, uh, quercetin or turmeric, or, or natokinase is another one that are really beneficial for people. You know, as you, um, care for people with some of these issues, one of the things I know you're an expert on— you and I have a similar passion for this— it's gut health. You wrote a best-selling book called Gut Feelings. Is that one of the biggest things you're addressing? And then how, how are you addressing people? Here's, I guess, the base of the question is, um, how are you addressing those issues today? Food, diet, lifestyle— like, what are some of the things— like, if you have a patient come in with POTS, or you have a patient come in with some of these different forms of autoimmune illness, what are some of the ways that you are treating and getting good results right now?

I will say this, that, that you— we kind of reference this, that cases are getting more complicated.

They are not as easy they once were.

I mean, 90% of our patients, when they meet us online, they are eating way better than the average American.

That's so true.

Yeah, like, they're not— like, occasionally, again, 10% maybe are kind of still eating standard American food, but it's few and far between. I mean, we are seeing people that are the really good— they've honed in their nutrition, they're doing all the wellness stuff, they're doing all the biohacking stuff, they've read in books, educated themselves on the research, or listening to podcasts, and they're better off than they would be if they weren't doing those things. So I'm not saying they're— it's for naught and in vain, but they're like stuck at this plateau and they're not where they need to be. And, um, so that's a phenomenon that we're seeing more and more, these sort of resistance to interventions, positive therapeutic interventions. Um, we're used to the beyond the basic cases, I guess what I'm trying to say. And that's who God is bringing us at this point. And, you know, we are— it's a sacred responsibility for us to be of service for them because we know that it's— they're kind of spinning their wheels and they're at the end of their rope of figuring out, like, I've done it all, like, what's going on? So to answer your question pointedly, I would say we have to start with food, but we have to really dig deeper with the things that are otherwise innocuous, but are causing, they're stressing an already stressed out immune system. So when you look at elimination diets, and there's many ways to do an elimination diet, but there's foods like vegetables and many plant foods that I, from a clinical nutrition standpoint, you and I would say, yeah, there's lots of benefits to these things. Yeah, but it's not the food's fault, but it's a destroyed microbiome and hypervigilant immune system and nervous system where you kind of have to meet the body where it's at.

Yeah.

And go really gentle. So resources like a GAPS protocol, which it's an acronym that stands for Gut and Physiology or Gut and Psychology Syndrome, which involves a lot of soups and stews and broths, and it really just easy-to-digest foods. Carnivore, carnivore-adjacent, carnivore-ish protocols can be another tool. And being specific about things when we need to go there, but lower histamine protocols could be helpful, which some of those protocols you easily modifiable. Yeah. Um, and it's— none of these foods are inherently bad, and that's why it's always balancing the science and art of it, because I don't want to create this sort of orthorexic overcorrection of people fearing otherwise real foods. Yeah, I don't think it's the food's fault, but it's what the price we're paying for the destruction of the human microbiome, which is intimately connected to that soil microbiome that we talked about earlier with the environment. So, um, yeah, that's, that's the initial food approach, is for me to take and assess how resilient is this person's system.

Yeah.

And sometimes we really have to pare down to give the body sort of a proverbial siesta, like a break, a Sabbath, to just be like, I, I'm going to focus on repairing and not being stressed out about these otherwise not stressful things. Um, supplementation— we want to meet, see what's causing the hyperreaction. Because remember, like, for people out there, like, inflammation is not inherently bad. All these issues that we're talking about are inflammatory. We have to ask the question, what's causing the inflammation? So that's what I talked about within Gut Feelings, is dealing with both the gut and the feelings— the physiological, symbolic of the gut, and the feelings, the mental, emotional, spiritual side of things. So to look at what are the things that are causing that bucket to overflow. So it's looking at foods, but then it's looking at environmental toxins. It's a massive thing. And I, I think when we deal with environmental toxins and then also the mental, emotional, spiritual toxins, if you will, well, a lot of food sensitivities actually go away. So back to my early point is I don't think it's the food that's the issue. It's like when you're not dealing— when you're— when you see someone's— you measure out of a urine test and blood test, the body's creating antibodies and glyphosate herbicides being secreted from the urine, that's a problem. That's going irritate the immune system, spiking inflammation. It's going to really mess up the microbiome, which is where 75% of the immune system is. So to address the glyphosate piece, to address the microplastic piece, to do— address the forever chemical piece is a significant needle mover for us clinically. Yeah, it's not linear, it's not— doesn't happen overnight, but to support detoxification in that deeper way is necessary for the body to know it's safe and it's not being irritated by these these otherwise real foods. And then the feeling side is very important too. So dealing with unresolved trauma, dealing with chronic stress, to, again, let the body know that it's safe.

Let me, let me ask you something in regards to that. Do you think it's a doctor's responsibility, whether it be an MD, a DC, a DO, uh, you know, the primary care practitioner, do you think they should have some level of being able to address the mind and the emotional and the spiritual component of helping somebody heal.

Absolutely. Yeah, I, I think that if nothing else, be a clinical quarterback and not gaslight your patient and refer them to someone who has a specialty. But I think we should be, um, have enough acumen to speak that language, enough acumen to not be Googling right in front of them and saying, I think this is what— because this is so I mean, the research is so clear, the mental, emotional, spiritual side. So I don't think every doctor, primary care physician, specialist needs to be an expert in all those fields, but we at least have to have some knowledge of it to point them in the right direction.

Well, I mean, I, I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree with you. And I think, again, we could go to the dictionary right now and it's going to say health is health of body, mind, and spirit. I mean, we're— it's, it's all those areas. And so I do agree that not every physician also has to be psychologist and pastor, but, but having, again, as you said, the acumen and the ability to, to refer out or give resources to help people mentally and spiritually. Because anybody that has been in practice, like you and I've been in practice, when I see patients, just as much as this food is making them sick— yeah, stress, relationship issues, lack of spiritual and divine wisdom or connection, those things together are making people sick just as much as food, or more.

Oh yeah, without a doubt. And to look at both sides of that coin, one of the things I have telehealth patients fill out is an ACE score, adverse childhood events or experiences. And it looks at things like, I mean, heavy stuff like sexual trauma growing up, physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, substance abuse growing up. I see so many people will gaslight themselves because they'll look other people and say, well, I didn't— it's not that bad, you know, I didn't— yeah. And they'll think it's not that, but it's not the event as much as the response to the event. And back to bio-individuality, a central part of what we do in functional medicine. Some people have different genetic variants, HLA, methylation, detox, that their bucket's already kind of smaller.

Yeah.

You have like these sort of traumas over the— accumulating over your life on top of the physiological stuff like we're talking about with environmental factors, that something's got to give. So yeah, for some people, the mental, emotional, spiritual side is a significant piece of the puzzle. For some people, it's a smaller piece of the puzzle, but to ignore it, uh, is doing your health a great disservice. Because I see the people that are consistent with that side of things, the feelings side of gut feelings, they move the needle so much more significantly. So true, because you're, you're part supporting that parasympathetic, because the vagal tone is so weak in so many of us, right? That resting, digesting.

So anything you can do to support vagal tone, you know, I don't think a lot of realize, as you're talking about vagal tone, this is this parasympathetic rest and digest response, that, that it's almost impossible for your body to heal even if you're eating the perfect foods, the perfect foods for you. If you're staying in that fight or flight mode, it's the opposite of healing your body. If you're— when your body's in optimal healing state, it's resting, it's digesting, it's regenerating, versus if you're in a fight or flight state, it's just protecting. It's not regenerating, it's not healing, it's not— I mean, not even close to that parasympathetic state. And so that, as physicians, seems It seems like that is one of the number one things we should do, and I think that I see doctors all the time violate the Hippocratic Oath, and I bring this up a lot, but I think I see them violate it constantly because the Hippocratic Oath is first do no harm. Most doctors, the first thing they do is if a patient goes and sees them is they put them in a state of fear or hopelessness, and it should be the exact opposite. And so really they're putting them in a state they— it's going to interfere with their healing.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's the, the mindset. I mean, you know, you've written a book about this, um, which, by the way, I got up at 3:30 in the morning to be here with you today, and I walked into the bookstore at the airport and I saw Think This, Not That at the airport.

Nice, that's great.

And I was going to sign it for you, but I didn't.

Wow. Hey, hey, I didn't do it.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, what are— what we eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner matters. But what are we serving our head and our heart on a daily basis? And those are the things that are more nebulous. They're more non-prescriptive because it's more straightforward for us to say like, okay, from a clinical nutrition standpoint, talking about macros and micronutrients and superfoods and all the exciting science around botanicals and herbs. But it is a lot more gray and nonlinear to say, talk about stress and trauma. Trauma. Like, you can't just say, don't have that, that trauma, stop stressing. Then they stress about not stressing. So I think there's a— these are more complex conversations to have. But there are things— and I would say our Western mind, especially a lot of, I think, people that are interested in health and wellness, historically, there are people that like the prescriptive stuff. Just tell me what to do. This isn't as easy to say, we'll just do that, because that's a big— that's a lot of to unpack over time.

Yeah.

Um, and our Western mind likes the black and the white and not the gray. This is a lot of gray for people, and it could be hiding underneath the surface. That's— we've trained our nervous system to be a certain way, um, since childhood, and it takes work to retrain it sometimes.

I mean, so, I mean, like, there, there are— like, I know for myself, probably the biggest thing I've struggled with is striving, like, feeling that if I'm not doing something all the time, you know, and some of this may go back to me feeling like I need to prove myself, or feeling like, um, you know, again, that's, that's what gives me some worth, is like accomplishing things. And so I think for some people it It could be that. It could also, again, trying to meet the approval of others, you know, people pleasing. And so there's a lot of these things that we literally have to go and do work. And it could be with the Bible, could be with a counselor. It could be just, yeah, a lot of it's good habits, right?

Yeah.

Getting in these good habits on a regular basis. I, do, do, do you have anything in particular that you've struggled with? Feelings, gut feelings, emotion-wise, and are there any practices that you have where you are, yeah, where there's a form of this sort of spiritual medicine that you're feeding yourself in order to, you know, optimize your spiritual and mental health?

Yeah, I mean, lots. I'm prone to anxiety. I'm— I definitely have to keep myself in check. So these are— I call them in the book, and I talk to patients about these— having these metaphysical meals, like treating these mind-body things like you would a meal. And for us, like, every day without fail for the past 15 years. Like, most of my telehealth team's remote, um, but there's a core of 7, 8 of us at the, like, HQ. And I, every day for the past 15, 16 years at this point, we start our day off with devotion and prayer.

Oh wow.

And as a team, we go over the schedule for the day and we pray for the people that are on the schedule.

Wow, I love it.

And, uh, So it's good for us, but it's also good for us to just be— our prayer in the morning is, how can we be channels for these people? How can we be channels for your healing, God, in these people's lives? Because we know they're going through heavy things. So that's something that helps my anxiety, something that I feel like I need to have it all figured out, or I need to have all the answers, that I need to— I'm in control of it all.. But realizing and surrendering every morning to say, no, I'm not in control. I'm not the, the, uh, generator of, of, of, of productivity and success in somebody's life or in the clinic's life. But how can I just be a channel for, for healing in people's lives?

It's so powerful. I know I've done a similar thing where it was, you know, when I've taken care of patients, where it's like, there's something so valuable in praying for somebody. You know, I, I think that I told my staff this recently, I said Um, most people that come into a clinical practice, brick and mortar, or that visit a virtual practice like, like, like, like you and I have, uh, most of them have never been told for maybe a whole week, um, I love you, or I'm proud of you, or you can do this, or— I mean, just so many people today are not being nourished spiritually, you know, emotionally, like you're sharing. And so for being able to do that as practitioners is, is one of the first and foremost things that, you know, I think all physicians should really focus on doing is bringing hope, bringing healing, bringing love in order to help people. You know, I know this is something, again, you've talked about in your books. I know this is something, as you share, you're doing such a good job of. Um, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about metabolic health. This is something else you've talked a lot about, gut health. I actually, I want to say one other thing. You know, I, I think that, um, I read a study recently that went through sort of how— and this is different than maybe was previously thought— but there's anywhere from probably 50 to 100 trillion bacteria living in our gut and digestive systems. Um, most people's microbiomes are, uh, not healthy. What are some— are there any interesting statistics or anything that you've seen when it comes to how many people today do you think are struggling with some sort of digestive health, leaky gut, something to do with the digestive system?

I mean, when you look That— this is how I would probably answer that, because there's no studies to show. I think specifically, I would love that study done specifically leaky gut syndrome, right? Increased intestinal permeability. If there is a study out there, let me know about it. But, but what I would say is, when you look at this, when I— when you look at 93% of the population having a metabolic problem, 50 million Americans having autoimmune disease, you look at the mental health epidemic, you look at the infertility epidemic. What do all those things have in common in the scientific literature? Leaky gut syndrome is a component to it, so it's at least a piece of the puzzle, um, every single one of those. And some researchers would even say it's causative, it's a precondition for a lot of those issues, meaning it— that you have to have that to have these other issues. I would say probably something a little bit more moderate and say it's at least a component to it, uh, and so I would— with that that knowledge, it's virtually every human being is somewhere on that gut dysfunction spectrum, whether it's mild. And this isn't to scare people. Look, I— the, the flip side of that, real quick, is that, to repeat myself, all of these things are healable, overcomeable, supportable. So this isn't to be doomsday, but this is just to say, look, we have to— it's like Maya Angelou, that quote from Maya Angelou: when you know better, you do better. So I'm saying that just to say, oh yeah, oh, now I know this is why I feel the way that I do. Let's do something about it, 'cause the body's amazingly resilient. So it's a massive amount of people, but we know more about it than ever because of the exciting science that's within the space of gut health. And at the end of the day, like you've talked about for so long, research is catching up with ancient medicine. This is nothing new to traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, indigenous medicine, medicines around the world.

Yeah, you know, one of the things I've started recommending to patients is very high-dose probiotics, up to like a trillion a day. Yeah, and that, and that's, that's probably 20 times the dose that most people might take in a probiotic supplement. But I think the reality is, is that if you've got 100 trillion bacteria in your gut, taking 1 trillion— isn't that crazy? Especially if you've been put on an antibiotic drug. I think most people today, that's one of the biggest issues. A lot of people are probiotic deficient. Efficient. I think a lot of people today are not getting a lot of those soothing and nourishing herbs and foods in their diet that I know that we both recommend so often. And then stress, we know that really is impactful and can be damaging on the gut microbiome. But there's a couple things, hormones, I want you to talk about here. And one is cortisol and the other is insulin. When I think about the two hormones that tend to then impact estrogen, testosterone, thyroid hormones, all these other hormones in the body, it tends to be insulin cortisol. Is that something you would agree with? And what are some strategies you have for patients to help them start getting both cortisol and insulin under control?

Yeah, so without a doubt, it's— it's— we have insulin, a rise of insulin resistance. That's, that's really one of the hallmark issues with that 90% of people that I'm talking about, is they have insulin resistance. So if you look at what I'm meaning there, we're made up of cells. On every cell of our body, we have an insulin receptor site. Think of receptor sites for people out there. Receptor sites are, I think of them like baseball mitts. They're kind of signaling aspects of the cell that's supposed to catch that baseball or that hormone to turn on or turn off some sort of pathway. And insulin's job is to impart many other things, but to get glucose or blood sugar into the cell for energy, to create ATP. And many people have insulin resistance, so that receptor site, that baseball mitt, isn't as optimal. I— maybe like a tattered baseball mitt. It's not doing its job very well. So there's a— there's a hype— there's hyperinsulinemia. And you can measure this on blood. You do serum insulin fasting. A lot of people, the majority of people, are gonna have higher serum insulin than we want for optimal. And it doesn't mean that they're all egregiously high, but they're gonna be higher than—

what are some of the side effects of that if somebody has higher insulin than they should?

Well, it's a fat-storing hormone. Hormone, so it's definitely, it can make it more difficult to lose weight. You can look more puffy than you want to, or it could be significant weight loss resistance and obesity and all the things we're seeing around the world. The brain is rich with these receptor sites, so a lot of brain fog, fatigue, can be driven by insulin resistance. And because the body's interconnected, it is gonna throw off a lot of other hormones, or a cascade of different issues. And we mentioned PCOS, or polycystic ovarian syndrome. That is an insulin-resistant issue. And all these— the confluence of different variables here will be contributing factors to the rise of infertility in the world. So yeah, those are some of the main things that, that insulin resistance can drive. And then cortisol is oftentimes a direct— directly proportional, trying to attenuate the situation. Yeah, because cortisol is not inherently bad. I mean, God made insulin, God made cortisol. It's such— just subject to the Goldilocks principle, right? Not too high, not too low, but just right. It's homeostasis. So cortisol, it's a stress hormone, but it's also an endogenous immunosuppressant. So it's a natural anti-inflammatory. Yeah. So if cortisol is high, it's not happening randomly in a vacuum. So it's typically a hyper-inflammatory state that the cor— the body's saying okay, yes, this is stressful. Yes, let's pump out this anti-inflammatory cortisol to get it down. So I don't see— like, the way that we see the body, we don't see cortisol as inherently bad, but it's certainly going to create more problems because it's an unsustainable situation. You're pumping your body full of stress hormones throughout the day, a dysregulation of that HPA axis, the neuroendocrine axis. It is just just unsustainable. So it creates that autonomic nervous system issue of the sympathetic fight-or-flight, freeze-fawn response is overactive, and that resting-digesting, that parasympathetic, that vagus nerve that we talked about earlier— that is one of the other reasons why we have such poor vagal tone, poor gut health, is because of these feedback loops, communication line. So we have to deal with what's stressing out the body.

What are some of your top prescriptions? Let's do these in separate buckets. For— let's start with and let's go to cortisol. And I do want to mention for anyone listening, I mean, insulin resistance, even if it's mild, I mean, it's associated with so many conditions, right? I mean, we know PCOS, we know Alzheimer's disease. I mean, there are a lot of medical conditions there that could benefit from this advice. So what are some of your top prescriptions? Could be food supplements, lifestyle stuff for, for supporting insulin.

Yeah. So in supporting blood sugar balance, supporting insulin, you could start with food if you wanted to. I mean, looking at your macronutrients, looking at proteins, fats, and carbs, and looking not in an obsessive way, not in an orthorexic way, but just knowing how you're fueling your body. So getting at least the very minimum, 100 grams of high-quality whole food, all the essential amino acids, protein throughout the day. And you would know that by tracking in a food tracking app. Not for ever and ever. I don't think most people, it's beneficial to be that granular about that stuff. But I want you to at least be educated, informed, almost use the food food tracking for a week or so as a mindfulness practice and education to learn, oh yeah, this is what 100 grams of protein even looks like, um, and then be in the ballpark at the minimum of that every day. Because why? That increase— that impacts insulin and leptin and ghrelin signaling. So your satiety signaling is going to be modulated in a way that's going to support you feeling fuller longer. It's going to be you're gonna have more stable blood sugar throughout the day. And, um, it's also the amino acids are raw materials for a lot of neurotransmitters and hormones and the building muscle. I mean, your muscles, like lean muscle mass, is like a blood sugar sponge. And the more lean muscle you have, the more your body can take in so it's not circulating in the blood. So protein's paramount. Um, healthy fat to satiety is also an important part, and your cell membranes need it, your immune system needs it, your brain needs it. So things like avocados, olives, wild-caught fish, grass-fed beef, and not fearing fat. And then fiber-rich carbohydrates, you know, fruits, vegetables, to digestive tolerance, as I kind of started off the conversation with. You have to meet your gut where it's at. So some of my— me throwing out different foods, if you're having digestive issues with it, look, you have to kind of pare things down. But fiber does support bacterial diversity, which is good for the microbiome. Yeah. And it blocks any glucose or sugar from passing the bloodstream. So it, it stabilizes blood sugar when you increase fiber to digestive tolerance. So from a nutrition food standpoint, that's where I would start. And then obviously there's so many like herbs, botanicals that we could talk about.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, numerous. Yeah. Uh, how about cortisol? What are some of your top prescriptions there?

Well, all that stuff— the more you can create blood sugar stability, the more you can support gut health, you're lowering inflammation.

Levels.

Yeah, cortisol is going to come down. Yeah. So I think that largely that's going to be— you're going to see a cascade of good neuroendocrine or nervous system hormonal communication line balance. Um, the— I, I— you and I both have an affinity for adaptogens, so I think adaptogens are something that to bring those in, in, you know, teas or powders or capsules These are foods.

Well, what are some of your favorite adaptogens you prescribe and that you also take yourself?

Uh, I love holy basil or tulsi, which has been used in Ayurvedic medicine for a long time. I love ashwagandha. I love rhodiola. I love functional mushrooms as well. Yeah, so like chaga and lion's mane, reishi. So I'm not saying everybody needs to get all of those things, but the great convenient blessing of the time that live in is that a lot of these superfoods come in blends.

That's right.

So you can get them in a one scoop, you can get a good dosing of all of these things, or get the single ingredients and cook with them, or make a tea out of them is another option as well.

Yeah, I love it. One of the things that has risen in popularity the last 10 years is a carnivore diet or a lion diet. You know, we've got people that I, I admire greatly like, uh, Michaela Peterson, Jordan Peterson. We know Paul Saladino did this for a time they're following a carnivore or even an all red meat diet. What, what are your thoughts on, on, on that diet?

I utilize it clinically when we need to. It— I don't see it as a long-term lifestyle. I see it as a clinical nutrition intervention, as an ultimate elimination diet. And I've talked to all those people you mentioned over the years, even when Paul was like strict carnivore. That was my advice. I was like like, that's just how I use it. And he's loosened up over the years.

Oh, he's added in fruit and honey and milk.

Paul, you come to my side of things. Yeah, but like, uh, and that's okay.

And he's doing great. Yeah, I mean, it's all— listen, my diet now is different than what it was 15 years ago. I mean, we're— yeah.

And many people, like someone like Paul, who's a wonderful human being, it's like, what— it worked for him for a time.

Yeah.

And he was talking about things because he— it was his experience of these foods, like as they talked about at the top of the conversation, otherwise fine foods, but we're creating stress on an already stressed-out system. So I think as he healed his body, he could do reintroduction. That's right. And long-term lower carb ketogenic, which you've talked about, I've talked about for a long time— yes, these are interventions you should use for a season of your life as you need to, as medicine. But there's going to come a time in your life with what served you in one season, you don't need to always do. So it's okay to pivot, it's okay to evolve. You're not a failure, not a fraud. Um, you're like, like said that quote from Maya Angelou, when you know better, you do better. And it's okay to say, well, yes, this, this did serve me for a time, but I don't necessarily always have to do it. And I think sometimes people within the wellness world, they have their one thing and they apply it to everybody.

That's right. And it's like, it's like if somebody has a hammer and everything's a nail, that's, that's, yeah, that's all they do.

And someone that looks at patients all day long and not just looking at academia or looking at your your own self, but you're looking at all the people, right?

It's very different.

It's hard to be so dogmatic. That's true, because you're just like, yeah, if I hung my hat on one thing, I'd be proven wrong all day long.

That's so true. Yeah, it's so true. You know, is there anything that concerns you about, or reasons you'd be concerned about, somebody doing carnivore long term?

From a nutrient— strict carnivore? Yeah, there's a lot of problems with that because and long term is so relative because people could definitely do it for years.

It's true.

Yeah. And they'll need to because what has taken years to get to where they're at, they're going to have to really rehab their immune system in their gut for a longer time. So if a lot of plant compounds, plant proteins, plant fibers, plant sugars are causing reactions in these people, you have to do a rehab on that person's gut. But I would say for the average person that really has a dysregulated we're talking about weeks, months more commonly, and then we work on reintroduction. The reintroduction is just as important. If we're improving resilience, the body shouldn't be stressed out about fruits and, you know, juices and, you know, vegetables.

That's—

yeah. And the proper preparation of some of these foods matters. Like, are we cooking them down, making them more digestible, pureeing them sometimes in soups and stews? So there's a lot of ways. It's not —just black or white. It's like, well, how are we preparing this food that makes it more digestible? Yeah.

And I think for a lot of people, the way that they'd go about doing this— and if you're a person on carnivore— and let me say this, I had a great conversation with James— Dr. James DiNicolantonio. He's great. And he started getting into— because he's done a lot of research on this— and he said his concern that he's seeing in, in the, in the medical literature is, is that— and by the way, this is something that people talked about years ago, acidity versus alkalinity, and most of the time time it was probably blown up and not necessarily the biggest problem. But his point is, is that it is— does put the body in a state of acidity where he believes he's seeing research where it's starting to pull minerals, alkaline minerals, out of the bones and out of different areas of the body. And that's going to harm the bones, possibly the kidneys and other organs over time. And so— and we're not even talking about after 1 year, it might be 10 years, but long-term, very long-term on these diets is an idea So we want to start reintroducing some foods. And, you know, in Chinese medicine, it would probably be something like you're introducing baby food. I mean, that's, that's what they'd have you do, you know? So it's like ultra steamed green beans and carrots, or probably even before that would be something like pears, you know, baked pears. Yeah, I have made people—

yeah, they do like make sort of a compote. They'll like cook down pears or berries and make sort of an inside of a pie. Pie without the pie part. Yeah, without the crust part. Um, yeah, so that, that's how meticulous some people have to be. Now, some people, when they've got to enough resilience, they can bring in fresh fruit and be fine. But we're talking about very sensitive reactive systems, and because of the environmental and the sort of chronic stress trauma piece, we're seeing this critical mass of something's got to give, and we have to be having, you know, compote conversations because that's where the person's gut health is, because you're breaking down those plant proteins, the plant fibers, and the plant sugars, making it more digestible. So yeah, that's— so there's another thing that I think of in addition to what you said about the alkalinity is the impact of these lower-carb long-term protocols, which carnivore would be that, ketogenic diet would be that. Is the impact on the thyroid hormones and female sex hormones. Those are another, another reason why I see them dipping on labs and we're getting diminishing returns. Whereas like for a time that ketogenic or that carnivore, strict carnivore diet served them, they're getting way more good out of it than any potential drawback. But they're kind of, okay, then you see the thyroid hormones are taking a dip, their T3 conversion, T4 to T3 conversion's taking a dip. So what can we do for reintroduction? Because what's good for the gut isn't necessarily great for the hormones. Yeah, long term. And you have to balance that out. And that's the, the science and the art of all this, and making judgment calls when you're navigating it from a case standpoint, or if the person's doing it on their own, just consider these variables when you're looking at the food you're eating.

I mean, you know, we're living in a world today where when we think of even nutrition or medicine, it's thought about as science, but there's almost a sort of artistic sometimes, like, like trying to really mold and create, you know, work with somebody in that way. And that's why I think when most people go into their doctor's office, it's like, you know, we've heard the analogy of like, it's like herding cattle. It's like you're in, they might look at the intake form for 5 seconds, prescribe you Synthroid or an antibiotic or statin and say antidepressant, say I'll see you later. I mean, that's the type of care most people are getting today. It's robotic versus the thing I think you and I both realize. And I think about with my mom with this. My mom had cancer. My mom needed more than that. My mom needed more than just, we need to put you on chemo and then tamoxifen and then, you know, CNT, you know, get mammograms every, you know, every little bit. And so, but for my mom, what helped her heal and reverse her cancer was, it was an art. It was love. It was, it was me walking her through, here's exactly what to eat. Hey, let's try, does this Does this work with you? Does this not work with you? It was much more relational. If you've been doing everything right, eating clean, exercising, but somehow you're still not feeling your best, your energy's dragging, your memory is slipping, and it's frustrating because you know there's more to your potential. Well, what if the issue isn't just in your routine, but it's deep down inside your cells? You know, you're investing in the best supplements supplements, working out regularly, and sticking to a clean diet. But if your cells are stuck in what's called cell danger response, all the hard work might not be paying off as it should. Think of your cells like a house under renovation. You can bring in the highest quality materials like the best supplements and clean foods, but if the workers inside the house are on lockdown because of a storm, nothing gets done. The materials just pile up unused. That's what happens when your cells are in CDR. They can't fully use the good stuff you're giving them. Getting out of CDR, the cell danger response, is the key to unlocking your body's full potential. When your cells are no longer in protective mode, they can finally use the nutrients, hormones, and energy you're working so hard to provide. That's when everything starts to click. Your energy improves, your workouts become more efficient, and you start to feel like yourself again. Go to beyondbloodwork.com to learn how to break free from cell danger response and make the effort pay off. Autism One conference, right, with Jenny McCarthy. Yeah, what are your— that was such a great event.

Yeah, it's funny 17, or—

she's been such a great spokesperson for the autistic community. Her son, yeah, obviously I was on the spectrum, and she helped him so much with that. I remember years ago when her and Jim Carrey went on, I think it was the Larry King Show. Yes. And I remember watching it live in person, and then after, I remember just the backlash, and then everyone trying to act like they were crazy. But I think today most people would look at this and say, you know what, there are issues with the amount of shots people are getting. There are issues with antibiotics. There are issues with our food and all the chemicals we're giving to our kids today. So I think now people are way more open than they were before. And similar thing, I think, with RFK. I think there were so many doubters and people that are, uh, trying to discredit him over the years. But one thing I'll tell you, and I, I, I, I think you probably think the same way I do about him, I respect him so much. The number one reason is he just loves kids. Like, he truly he's not in this for the money. He truly wants to help make autism non-existent. He truly wants to help kids get healthy. Yeah. So that's first and foremost something I've just respected about him so much. Yeah. What, what are your feelings on RFK? I know you got to, you know, you've met him a few times, got to speak with him. Yeah.

Yeah, he's a great guy as far as I know. Um, being around him the few times that I've been around him and talking with him, he seems like an authentic human being, way than most people in DC. Yeah. So, uh, I think that we agree. That's just the thing, you don't have to agree with someone across the board. Yeah. And I'm not even saying I, I think I agree with him on his major issues of looking at the chronic disease epidemic. How could you disagree with that? Looking at the censorship and the surveillance— that's right— industrial complex in this country, which is so connected to what our work is within health, because our patients are medically gaslit and then they can't even share share their experiences on social media without fear of— they either will self-censor themselves knowing that they'll get, they'll get shut down, or they get censored for just talking about their own experiences with autoimmunity and their health, or sharing information they learned, just free exchange of information. So that's important to him. And I mean, not health-wise, but talking about, um, the Forever Wars. These are all important things for America. Yeah. And even if you talk about Forever Wars in the realm health. The, the research around PTSD— I see a lot of that with research with, with patients— and intergenerational trauma. Like, you think of what we're doing when we have these unnecessary wars, it's impacting generations to come around the world. So yeah, the, the topics that are important to Bobby are important to me, so there's definitely an overlap. But not just me, most most of us within health and wellness. Oh yeah, of all different— this is nonpartisan.

I recently spoke at a, at a chiropractic conference called Max Living. This group of— it's an amazing group of doctors. These doctors are super passionate. Actually, I think I remember somebody told me like your, your dad, you know, attended a few times. Yeah, yeah, many, many years ago. And so I got to speak to this group, and, and every single one of this— I mean, I'm talking about hundreds of doctors, there's probably 300 there— and all of them are so excited about what Bobby Kennedy's doing in terms of trying to, trying to make America healthy again, trying to take care of the kids and protect them and not allow these big organizations that are really driven by money alone with nothing else there. Big Pharma, big agriculture, big, you know, some of these big food companies. And so anyways, I'm, I'll tell you, you and I both know so many people that are chiropractors and osteopaths and functional medicine MDs, and across the board, 99% of them, from what I've seen, are really excited about some of the initiatives that he's— it's not a person.

That's why I say I made a post about this the other day. I'm like, whoever gets in in November, these truths will remain. That's right. It's just a matter of are they going to give— pay attention to it or not? Are they going to move the needle in the positive direction or not? Um, so yeah, this is just about who actually is paying attention to what we're facing as a society.

Yeah, you know, one of the things is I went through and, and, uh, through this back issue, um, I became so mindful of longevity. I mean, I think as I was in bed for a year and was in so much pain, and so grateful now to be on the other side of it and have healed— and I look, by the way, you know, you've learned from this too, but going through our own health challenges or having family members go through it, it's the greatest learning experience because it's one It's one thing to be working with somebody else. It's another thing when you yourself are dealing with it. I mean, it's like you're spending thousands of hours learning and you're learning yourself. And I think once you learn it yourself, can overcome it, there's a level of sort of mastery that can happen. And so for me, going through this, I realized that I want to do everything I can to be active and feeling good in my 80s and 90s, even more than before. And longevity has been something I've become so passionate about. I know you have started a new supplement company, Longevity RX. I know this is something that you are really passionate about as well, is longevity. What inspired you to start that company? What, what has inspired you to want to help people with, with, with longevity?

Well, it's really so tied into my telehealth work because all those chronic diseases that we talked about, depending on the study that you cite, it's about 4 to 10 years off of our life. The United States spends more on healthcare than all industrialized nations, yet we have the shortest lifespan and the most chronic disease of all, of all industrialized nations. So we have to do something different to see something different. So my passion for longevity, i.e., longer, healthier, more vibrant life— like, how can you live your best life, uh, is really born out of my telehealth patients and seeing the, the potential of the human body. And I know, look, I, I could see patients 10 hours a day, and I have seen patients for 10 hours a day for the past 15 years. I am scraping the surface of the amount of people that need our help and need this information. So I think when you're looking at things like people can bring in their own life that maybe don't have access to a functional medicine doctor, or maybe they don't even need a functional medicine doctor right now. What can they do on their own to bring in their life to start to reclaim their health for the better? And there's so much exciting science around healthspan. So how can we support healthspan in an easy, effective way? So that's really where the project was born out of, is seeing the plight of people with chronic health issues, or people that just want to optimize. They're somewhere on that spectrum of inflammation, and they need know this brain fog, this fatigue, these are signs of accelerated aging. Mhm. And they may not have a severe chronic disease, but they know they're not living their best life. These are proverbial check engine lights to say, look, yeah, you're aging faster than you need to. And so many, so many people settle for it, right? Oh yeah. Because they gaslight themselves and, or they go to their doctor and they, they're told, you know, you're just getting older, just settle for it. That's right. Exactly. It's your lot in life. Uh, no. So just because something's common doesn't necessarily make it normal. That's right. Just because something's your everyday doesn't mean you should settle for it. And so many people settle for feeling less than they have the capacity to feel.

Have you ever done one of those, you know, biological versus chronological age tests, like a GlycanAge or telomere test or anything like that?

Yeah, I have. Yeah, we run it on telehealth patients. It's exciting 'cause every couple years there's new labs coming out sort of aggregating the data and assessing, you know, what your, your cellular age is, basically.

Were you like 12 or 13 years old?

9 months, just learning to walk.

It's so great, it's so great. But these tests are great. I mean, it's amazing we have technology now to where we can test. And if, again, if you're like— I'm 43— it can tell me if I've got the body of a 33-year-old or a 53-year-old. I mean, it's really amazing to be able to see that. And I think that's great for patients because then it, it gives you really something to strive for. Yeah, like, I want to get younger. And, and, and that's one of the best tests out there, you know. And, and, um, I think Peter Attia's book, David Sinclair, covers a similar thing. And one of the arguments in some of those books is, is that almost all disease in a way is aging. Yeah, you know, you be— because— and there's this great study out of Stanford, um, I, I think last time I saw you, we might have just chatted about it for a few minutes, but they went through and basically they created blood markers to not only test your biological age of your whole body, but test the biological age of different organ systems. So they had like 4 or 5 different systems. And so what's the biological age of your heart? Because so many people— and I know this is something that just breaks my heart— I had my father-in-law pass this year from a heart attack. And, um, it was one of those things where I think about, gosh, he was so healthy in so many areas. I mean, he was on zero medications. We thought he was absolutely fine, but he did— we, we didn't find this out until pretty much around that time he passed, but it was— he had high blood pressure, and he just thought it was white coat syndrome. But I think it was probably really high for a long time. And if we would have been able to kind of test and gauge, okay, what's your biological age of your heart or your immune system or your gut or whatever it might be, I get— I think there's just so much, so much value there.

Yeah, you're right. And there's science recognizes around 12 hallmarks of aging, and a lot of them have to do with inflammation. A lot of them have to do— yeah, and that's why that sort of coined phrase of inflammaging— yeah, it's really an inflammatory component. When you look at gut dysbiosis or looking at senescent cells— that's right— sort of these things that accumulate that are these zombie cells that are— they're impervious to apoptosis. They're— they, they don't want to die. They, they ignore cell death and they survive like zombies, releasing all these pro-inflammatory cytokines. So a lot of the longevity and healthspan research is centered around these inflammatory— these cytokine models of aging. These cytokines are pro-inflammatory cells. So, so much of what we do is modulating inflammation in a way where you're not in this hyper-inflammatory state, because that's what's aging people. So there's 12 different, like, differentiated aspects of it that we can understand today, but a lot of the commonality is inflammation. Yeah.

What are some of your top foods, maybe supplements as well? I know, again, as we talked about, you've created this new supplement company, Longevity RX, where you're creating some of the most premier supplements when it comes to longevity, really specializing in— like, by the way, this is something so many more people are interested in. There are a lot of people, like, they're millennials, people in their 40s, they're saying, I want to start aging slow now. Like, my wife is one of those people. My wife's skincare routine, my wife's supplements— I mean, she takes a lot of supplements to slow the aging process. And to not only— you know, one other thing, sometimes I'll have people say this. They will say, uh, I did this post on Instagram on my top 12 foods for longevity, and somebody— or to live to 100 or 120. And, um, and quite a few people commented, I don't want to live to be 100. Oh yeah, I get that comment.

And so it's not only—

listen, here's the thing I just want to say. It's not just about adding years to your life, it's about adding life to your years, which is actually the tagline you have for Longevity RX, which I think is so, so, so great. But my point there is, is that a lot of people say that, but here's the thing. If you felt really good and you could still be active running around at 100, no, you would want to live to be 100, likely. If you felt great, you had a purpose. Again, if the, if the things are lining up with your life.

No, you're absolutely right. For years, when I would write about the longevity research, like, the most of the research— the science shows this— that most of us can live over 100 disease-free, healthy years. We're not talking about just chronological age, we're talking about healthspan, not just lifespan. We're looking at both enhancing healthspan and enhancing lifespan. So whatever whatever lifespan you have, you're gonna have abundant, vibrant life. Um, so yeah, I'm excited about the science about it, and you don't need necessarily all the fancy tests to get, to get access to this. And that's why I'm so excited about this line, that people, no matter who you are, can have access to science-backed effective tools to support cellular health. To support healthspan.

Yeah, what are just a handful of the superfoods or herbs or supplements, some things you like for supporting longevity?

I'm fascinated around a postbiotic that you can— a body can make from pomegranate extract. Wow. So it— postbiotics are basically the, the products of probiotics. So we have prebiotics, probiotics, postbiotics, is parabiotics too. And think that one specifically is called urolithin A. It supports something called mitophagy, which is mitochondrial autophagy. So if you break that word down, autophagy, autophagy, it's self-eating. It's all the healthy cells gobbling up all the dysfunctional cells. So it's one of those ways that we can mitigate the 12 hallmarks of aging is supporting mitophagy or mitochondrial health, which is our cellular energy factories. And this postbiotic, urolithin A, can do that, and we get it from pomegranate extract. So that's one that I'm excited about. I think supporting NAD levels is also really important because as we age, NAD can drop. So it is needed for cellular energy. And there's so many superfoods and adaptogens that I love that people may not see as supporting longevity but because they're modulating that stress response, they're lowering that inflammatory state, they're lowering that fight or flight state. Back to what you had said with your father-in-law, and I had a similar story with my dad, is when somebody is, when the human body's stuck in that stress state, we may not even know it. 'Cause on the outside, everything's fine. But because we live in this messed up world in many ways, that we need to be supportive of that person parasympathetic. So back to some of those earlier things that I mentioned about the adaptogens, I think they can be really congruent to healthspan as well.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. As you mentioned, this, this compound— I know as I read up on it, this, uh, compound in pomegranates, sometimes it's found in certain raspberries too, ellagic acid, that then can, if it's fermented, turn into urolithin A. Yeah, and most people have heard of— some people have heard of urolithin A, but there's also urolithin B, B, C, D, E. There's all these other urolithins that you— you know, there's a supplement brand out there I know that has— just sells a urolithin A product, and that's beneficial. But what's so unique about— I know what you've done with your product is it not only produces urolithin A in the body, it's urolithin B, C, D, E, and it's probably a way more absorbable form of urolithin A. And so I think it's so, so cool. So for everybody out there, and some of my top longevity foods, as Dr. Will talked about, it's foods like pomegranates, it's figs, it's those foods that tend that dark black, blue, purple color— blueberries, blackberries— getting more of those in your diet. As Dr. Will talked about, the adaptogenic herbs he talked about earlier, like ashwagandha, holy basil, uh, some of the medicinal mushrooms like cordyceps and reishi— these are foods that promote longevity. Green tea. I mean, we could go, we could do a whole show, and maybe we will here in the future, just do one solo on longevity. But again, it's not just about adding years to your life, it's adding life to your years. And that's something that I know Dr. Will and I feel both very passionate about is helping people live their best life possible, helping people reverse chronic disease, helping people regenerate their organs and tissues and heal at a cellular level and regain their health. Dr. Will, this is fun. I know we're going to get— we're not going to True Food Kitchen after this, we're going to— I'm bringing you to Urban Market. Yeah, one of our—

that's it. To me, it's, it's the best thing in, in Nashville. It's the best restaurant.

It's so good. If you're in Nashville, it's in Franklin, Tennessee, but you might see Dr. Will and I there. We love it. And, uh, this has been so good. Thanks. Thank you so much, my friend. We're going to the farm today. We actually got a farm here, uh, south of here that we're going to go and pet some water buffalo. Yeah. And for every time— and go to our greenhouses. We do regenerative agriculture. We grow actually some of our own, uh, superfoods. And I know some of the things that you put in some of your, uh, amazing products you do are regenerative agriculture based. So something that we're both excited about. So anyways, again, hey, thanks so much to my friend here Dr. Will Cole, one of the leading functional medicine experts literally in the entire world, longevity expert as well. And, um, and also he, by the way, check out his podcast, check out his social channels @DrWillCole. He has so much great content out there. I wanna encourage you guys to check out. I wanna say, hey, thanks so much for tuning in here to, to, to the Dr. Josh Axe Show where each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles behind how to grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Hey, by the way, By the way, don't forget to subscribe, share, and like. And if you're watching on YouTube, please comment. We'd love to know what is your biggest takeaway from this conversation with Dr. Will Cole today. And by the way, there are so many people suffering. Thank you for all of you that are on mission with us who are sharing this podcast. We believe that this is gonna bring hope and healing and health to make America healthy again. Thanks so much for watching. I'll see you on the next episode.