How Self-Worth Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima

Self-worth is the one thing that literally changes everything in every other area of your life, your relationships, your business, your goals, your dreams. Like, we, we do not rise to what we believe is possible for us in life. We will fall to what we believe we're worthy of. And in our relationships, in our friendships, in our careers, our ambitions, our goals, our dreams, like like we don't soar to the level of those goals and dreams. We stay stuck at the level of our self-worth. Another way to put it that I talk a lot about in Worthy in the book is how in life we actually don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. And there are a lot of people that maybe know what they want and they think that's enough, or then they take action and they work so, so, so hard and build all the skills and the confidence to be really good at it. And then they may even go a step further and know their why for why they're doing what they're doing, which is so important. But all of that isn't enough often to get the thing you want unless you also learn to believe you're worthy of it.

Hey everybody, Dr. Josh Axe here. Welcome to the podcast here today. I am so excited. We have an amazing guest with us today. It's Jamie Kern Lima. She's a New York Times bestselling author and founder of IT Cosmetics. This is a company that she started in her living room, and it grew to one of the largest luxury makeup brands in the country. And she's been named, uh, on the Forbes list of America's richest self-made women. And she's dedicated her life to inspiring women and elevating people's mindsets. And today we're going to dive into some great topics I think are going to be really relevant to you, really help bless your life. We're going to talk about self-worth, handling rejection, overcoming limiting beliefs, and a whole lot more. Hey, I want to welcome Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Josh, thank you so much for having me.

Well, cool. Well, I, you know, I started— we have a lot of mutual friends. We started off talking about that. Everyone from, you know, Donald Miller to Amy Porterfield and a lot of just great people. And, and I remember reading your story years ago. You know, I've built an entrepreneurial business, a supplement company in ancient nutrition. I love studying and learning from people that are successful but also have built purpose-driven businesses and purpose-driven lives. I remember reading your story as going from a, a Denny's waitress to a billionaire entrepreneur and the founder, as we mentioned, of IT Cosmetics. One of my first questions for you was, is really related to, uh, one, how you did that, but also I know one of the things I read about was you faced a lot of rejection through your journey. How did you overcome rejection and self-doubt in building a billion-dollar company?

Yes.

Woo.

It was a journey. And you know what I know is like, as we're sitting here right now talking, you know, 80% of women struggle with self-doubt and don't believe they're enough. And 73% of men feel inadequate and struggle with self-doubt and don't believe they're enough. It's a big thing that I feel like can kill more dreams than almost anything else. And You know, a lot of people when they Google my story and they see that, they see, "Oh, Denny's waitress builds billion-dollar company." I think their first thought is like, "Oh, did she get lucky?" Or, "Was it a fairy tale?" Or, "Was she just so confident?" And, you know, it was a real struggle, Josh. Like so much of my story almost didn't happen. And I came so close to like doubting myself out of my own destiny so many times, to listening to my own self-doubt over God's Word, like all of it for the journey. And it was, you know, it was a real struggle. And I, you know, I started, I always thought growing up that I would interview other people and share their stories with the world. I used to watch Oprah every single day as a little girl, and I thought I knew what I was going to do. And I worked a bunch of jobs to try and be the first person in my family to go to school and paid my way through school, waitress at Denny's, sliced meat in the deli, all the things. And I eventually was anchoring the news, and I thought in my dream job. And I was about to enter my first kind of huge season of self-doubt and setback in my life. And I got this skin condition called rosacea, which for me actually gets really, really red and bumpy all over my face. And what started happening is, you know, I thought I was in my dream job that I worked so hard to get to, and I'd be live on the air. And the producer would say in my earpiece, "Live, I'm talking to millions of people, like there's something on your face. You need to wipe it off. You need to wipe I would, you know, glance down at the compact of makeup in the commercial break and try to cover it, and nothing would work. And I started kind of this huge season of setback where I would be live on the air actually thinking thoughts like, "Are viewers changing the channel right now? Am I costing the station ratings? Am I going to get fired?" And, you know, what I know is so often in life, the things that we feel our setbacks are actually God's setups for what we're called to do and what we're supposed to step into. And sometimes we just don't know it at the time. And so I started this kind of big pursuit trying to find a product that would work for me, and I couldn't find one out there. And I also realized, you talk about being purpose-driven, I realized that I had never really seen in all the beauty ads my whole life that I used to love, I had never really seen someone with bright red, bumpy skin saying, you know, this product is great. And I'd only ever seen kind of these overly Photoshopped images that while I love them, they always deep down made me feel like I wasn't enough. And I had this moment where, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people out there who put their art or their ideas or their, you know, works out into the world. I had this idea all of a sudden that hit me like, Well, what if you, if you can't find anything that works for you, what if you create something? It's probably going to help a whole lot of other people too that can't find anything that works for them. And, and I had that kind of gut feeling like that knowing like that said I should do it. But then my head, which was filled with so much self-doubt, would talk me out of it. So for a long time, maybe a lot of people can relate to this where you feel like you're supposed to do something like maybe you could do it if you tried. But then in my head I would think thoughts like, oh, but you've got no connections, you've got no money, you are unqualified, all those things. And I sat in that place and it wasn't until I felt this deep sense of purpose that was greater than myself that I made the decision to jump. And what I mean by that was there was a moment that hit me long before I understood the concept of identifying your why and your why beneath your why for why you're doing it. It was really a moment of grace in my life where I just had this huge, like, wait a minute, you know, maybe if I figure out how to, you know, create a product that works for me, that's great. But what if I actually use real people as models, like every age and shape and size and skin tone and skin challenge and call them beautiful and mean it? What if I could shift the whole definition of beauty in the whole beauty industry, which at the time was only using Photoshopped images that always kind of made you feel like you weren't enough when you saw them. And I was like, what if I redefine beauty in the whole industry and actually can change it for every little girl out there who's about to start doubting themselves and every grown woman who still does? So it was kind of like this big why that was bigger than me hit me. And that was when I made the decision to jump and to go for it. And to your point, the first 3 years, for anybody who's ever launched their own business or is in the middle of it right now or putting their ideas out there in the world. Whew. Sometimes it's good. We don't know what we don't know when we start it or how hard it's going to be. Cause the first 3 years were packed with hundreds and hundreds of nos and rejections. I didn't know that from the second I launched the business, it would be over 3 years before I could afford to pay myself and learning how to, and I wrote an entire chapter, like a masterclass on this in my new book, Worthy, because this is life-changing, but learning how to change your relationship with rejection for me is like, it's life-changing, it's business-changing, it's relationship-changing. And in this 3 years of hundreds and hundreds of rejections, nobody knew my company that I started in my living room would one day sell for over a billion dollars cash, right? At the time, no one believed in it. Everyone kept telling me no. And it is so easy in our lives to let someone else's no somehow feel like an indication that our business isn't going to make it or our idea doesn't have potential. And it is so easy to talk ourselves out of our own destiny, our own truth, if we don't have those tools. So yeah, learning how to navigate and change my relationship with rejection is one of the single biggest reasons why I was able to keep going until eventually we built the business to over 1,000 employees. And eventually, uh, I hope in some small way, uh, changed the, the beauty industry, which is now making so many strides toward including real people, um, as, you know, what's considered beauty.

That's amazing. I mean, there, there's so much to unpack there. One of the first being, yeah, I think you mentioned around 80% of women, 73% of men experience a lot of serious self-doubt and a lot of limiting beliefs. You know, you talked about, uh, obviously, you know, one of your biggest, uh, it seems like one of your biggest issues was, was rejection, this fear of rejection. Would you walk us through, uh, sort of your experience with what some of your biggest limiting beliefs were and how you overcame those?

Yeah, absolutely. And so I would love to do this with you if you are great with it, with everyone listening and part of this show with us right now, uh, because the fear of rejection and the fear of failure is one of the biggest reasons we stay stuck. And, uh, I would love to share kind of a tool, like a real practical framework that we can do in our lives right now to kind of take a step forward, uh, in, in overcoming this, uh, because I truly believe, um, and by the way, when I wrote this book Worthy, it's, it's really because my biggest journey in life has been how do I believe I'm worthy? My hopes and dreams. And in life, what I know to be true is we can have all the success in the world. We can build all the things and all of that. And those things build confidence, but none of them build self-worth. And we'll never be able to enjoy those things if we don't actually absolutely feel worthy underneath all of it. Also, for most of us, if we don't have strong self-worth underneath it all, we'll sabotage them along the way, or we'll hit a ceiling in our business or our ideas. And The worst of it too, when we struggle with self-worth, which is the one thing that changes everything in our life when we build it, is that when rejections or failures happen to us, we can all of a sudden, especially when we've had them in the past, we start to take them on not just as a rejection or failure that hurts our confidence, which is largely based external, but we start to think we're a reject— rejection, or we're a failure. We're rejected or we're a failure. We take it on at an identity level, and that's when it hurts our self-worth. That's when so many of us stay stuck and don't go for things. And so, you know, step one is, you know, there's a whole chapter that almost was its own book. It was going to be its own book, but I didn't want to wait two more years. And so it's inside Worthy as a chapter called When You Change Your Relationship with Rejection, You Change Your Life. And so Here's what I would love to take everyone through. There's a framework called the Four Rs, and this has been life-changing for me. It's been company-changing, relationship-changing, all of it. When you think about how, as human beings, we're all wired to avoid pain at all costs. And I know so many people, even though they know, if I go to the gym, I'll be healthy and I'll have all of these pleasurable rewards, but I just hate working out. And so many people will want to avoid the pain of working out, even though they know the payoff. Like, we're just wired to want to avoid pain. And so for most of us, when we think of getting rejected or failing at something, we associate so much pain with it that it keeps us stuck. And so just to do this kind of in real time with everybody, because this is something you can apply to your life right now, that is just You know, so powerful. So right now, just ask yourself this question. We're going to go through the 4 Rs, and this is the first R called Reveal. So right now, um, ask yourself this question and really be honest with yourself. Um, think about, you know, a time when you have failed or been rejected. Maybe there's many times, but what is the first thought that goes through your head when you get rejected or you failed at something. And a lot of times we don't— we're not even aware of this first thought. We just have it, right? But if you're listening to me and Josh right now, think about this. What is the very first thought you have? And be really honest with yourself when you get rejected or you fail at something. Josh, what is it for you? Hmm.

You know, I think that I could do— well, it depends on the person, probably. One, it could be, I'm not I'm not smart enough, or I'm not good enough. And the other could be, well, it could be actually pushback at the other person of, well, that, that person, you know, doesn't know what they're talking about sort of idea, or that person's not smart or wise. And so it's probably could go two ways.

Two ways. So, uh, it's so good for me. Most of my whole life, mine was always like, yep, there's proof I'm not enough. Yep. Proof again, I'm not enough would be the first thought I'd have. And For a lot of people, like I've asked, you know, various groups this question and I've had a whole room of CEOs in tears because a lot of people aren't aware. But for a lot of people, the first thought they have is something like, I'm a loser. I shouldn't— why'd I even try? I knew, you know, who do I think I am going for this? I'm not smart enough. The one you brought up is a big one. So What, what thought that you just had for everyone listening, right? For Josh, it was either, oh yeah, I'm not smart enough, or oh, they're not smart enough, they're wrong. For me, it was like, yep, there's proof I'm not enough. Whatever it was for you listening right now, that first thought you have, that is your current definition of rejection and failure. So that is the meaning that you attach to rejection or failure, often without even realizing it. And for so many of us, that meaning is so painful that we want to avoid it at all costs. So we stay stuck. We don't go for the thing. We're running a great business, but we don't put our wild idea out there that just might move the needle, right? Because we want to avoid the potential of rejection or failure because of the meaning we attach to it. And so most of my life it was always like, oh yep, there's proof I'm not enough. I'm not enough every single time. And what happened is, as I was building IT Cosmetics, going through hundreds of rejections, There was one rejection one day. I just had this dream and vision we should be on QVC. You know, when God tells you something and you feel it, but like no one else seems to agree and you don't know why. And like, we eventually built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history. But for 3 years they said no. And not only no, but you are not the right fit for us or our customers. I mean, there was some— one no in particular was so painful because we were so close to bankruptcy. And so I'll never forget this no. And I just like, Crawled under my covers, I started Googling every person I admired most who has built incredible things in business and who has moved the world forward, who's helped heal humanity through love, who's, you know, shifted culture. And I started reading about all their stories, and every single one of them has gone through countless rejections and failures on their journey. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways. And so that day I wrote down, "Rejection does not mean I am not enough. Rejection means this is a victory because I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. I'm not going to just live my life on the sidelines and then deal with all this regret of never trying. I'm going to decide right now." And here's the thing, you have to believe this to be true in your soul, but I decided right then, okay. Every time I get rejected, I know my first instinct is going to be that old definition, "Oh, I'm not enough." I'm going to intercept it. I'm going to replace it with that new definition. This is the second R called redefine. And from now on, when I get rejected, I'm going to say, "This is a victory. It means I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it." And of course, I have to intentionally believe that for it to feel true. But over time it does. Another big new definition of rejection that I started adding to my toolbox, and this is how I got through hundreds of rejections and eventually built a billion-dollar business. And another one was rejection's God's protection. And I would look back at past rejections and be like, oh, now I see how it didn't make sense at the time, but it was God's protection. I remember one moment, Josh, there was, uh, you know, we were down to no money. I didn't know how we were going to make it. And a potential, uh, private equity company, a potential investor, had gotten hold of our product. And they're really well known, and they've turned a ton of small companies in pre-revenue into big businesses we all shop for in grocery stores and big box retailers. And I was so excited. I thought, oh my gosh, if they invest in us, then, hey, we're not going to go bankrupt. And B, what if they use their leverage to like, you know, get us into all these stores that keep telling me no. And I was so excited. And we went through meeting after meeting after meeting and we started the diligence phase where we brought on lawyers. It was a whole thing. We got to the final meeting and my husband and I flew up for this meeting and presented the whole future product pipeline. And at the very end of the meeting, the head— the team was awesome. I knew they were like really for me. And then the head guy says, you know, congratulations. He was standing about 3 feet from me. By the way, and he says, congratulations, you should be so proud. This is a really great product. You should be really proud of it. But it's going to be a no. We're going to pass on investing in IT Cosmetics. At this point, I'd gotten so many nos and I said to him, like, okay, can you tell me why? Because feedback is usually a gift. And he just got really quiet. And then he says to me, do you want me to be really honest with you? And I was like, "Yes, please." And then he paused for the longest time. And I remember the moment his mouth started moving and he says to me, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." And when he said those words, I actually never felt any anger toward him, but it was like a lifetime of body doubt and self-doubt, like, flooded my body. So I felt like I was staring my own fear, like, straight in the eye. But when he said those words, I'll never forget this. I got this feeling, like deep down in my stomach, like I can feel it like it was yesterday, that said, that literally said, "He's wrong. Like, he's wrong." And I didn't know how to prove it. But I got that feeling, that knowing, which is when I pray, that is how I hear God, that still small voice. And when he said those words, I just don't think. Women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. And I got that feeling that the city's wrong. When I look back at that moment, what I know happened is that he gave me a no, but God gave me a knowing. And I believe every one of us, I believe our intuition is stronger than anyone else's advice. I believe so much of our life will come down to which one we listen to, the no or the knowing. And so many of our most painful rejections can come from other people like this one did. But most of our most painful rejections can come from ourselves and the things we're telling ourselves. And being able to tune into what is the truth and what isn't, and how are we going to define or redefine rejection. And so in that moment when he— and by the way, every one of us deals with rejection in different ways every single day. And when he said those words to me, I just remember making the decision. And by the way, I went out in my car and I cried. But I made the decision. Rejection is God's protection. And I don't know how it's God's protection right now, but I'm going to believe it. And that was one of my favorite go-to definitions. And then 6 years later, I hadn't heard from him in 6 years. 6 years later, the day that L'Oréal acquired our company, they're a public company. And so I learned the night before they were going to disclose the purchase price. And so it was everywhere. The homepage of The Wall Street Journal, it was everywhere that L'Oréal paid $1.2 billion cash and made me the first woman to hold a CEO title of a brand in their 100-year history. It was everywhere. And it was the first time I heard from him in 6 years. And he said, congratulations on the L'Oréal deal. I was wrong. And I don't know, Josh, if you ever saw that movie Pretty Woman, like where she— where Julia goes in the store, they won't help her. And then she like goes in a couple of days later. So what I wanted to say to him was, Big mistake. Huge, huge. But I didn't. I kept it classy. But here's what I knew is that had he believed in me at the time, I was so desperate, I would have given him the majority of the company for probably nothing. I didn't know how we were going to stay alive because he didn't believe in me when we sold the L'Oréal. We were still the largest shareholders. And I was like, rejection is God's protection. And so it's one definition, but I just want to encourage everyone at home to write out new definitions of rejection that you know, and you know to be true, that you're going to replace that old thought every time it comes up so that you build resiliency. You don't let rejection or failure take root and make you even for a second think you're rejected or you're a failure. And you just start building that resiliency and The third R, really, I'll try to go fast to these. The third R is to revisit. And this, I think, is the most powerful one. And it's, it's taking that ability to redefine rejection, but revisiting past rejections and failures. For so many men, for so many women, we have had past people hurt us, reject us. We have made our own mistakes. We have failed so many times. And we let those labels and those limiting beliefs take root in— and it's almost like we're trying to fly carrying these lead balloons of labels we've put on ourselves from our past. And we can easily start to believe our past can, you know, can determine our future. And it doesn't have to. And I love to revisit past rejections and then redefine those so that I'm not carrying the weight of them anymore, so that I change the story I tell myself about what they were. You know, two quick examples is, you know, I was adopted and for so much of my life I kind of thought I'm rejected or I'm abandoned. And I kind of had that story for a long time. And I made this decision to actually apply this tool. In my personal life that way. And I decided, oh my gosh, my birth mom and birth dad were together one time ever. Like, God chose me to come into this world. And then my birth mom, her life would have been way easier if she did not have me. But she chose to deliver me. And my adopted parents chose to raise me. And I just, I changed that limiting belief and that definition I gave to rejection that used to be like abandoned, rejected, unwanted. And I replaced it with like, "Oh, I'm chosen." And I believe that. And it's shifted how I live my life. And the last quick one I'll share is my favorite in case someone needs to hear it today. I never talk this much. I'm just so excited.

I love it. Hey, I love it. Learning a lot. So good.

Well, my last one that I just feel in my spirit is for someone today is when you revisit past rejections, people that have betrayed you or pulled the rug out from underneath you or did not see your value, uh, or didn't love you the way you needed to be loved, or even current things that happen, like maybe the job you apply for, you want it so bad and you don't get it, or the friend that betrayed your trust, the person that broke your heart. When those kinds of rejections happen, I go deep into how to do this in a real tactical way in the book Worthy. Um, but when they happen to you, this is my favorite one to revisit. My favorite definition is I will literally, Josh, imagine— I'll imagine God saying to me, "Oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny." And I'll believe that. And it's how to this day, if all of a sudden I'm not invited to a party or included in something or whatever, we all face these various forms of rejection or someone just not liking us no matter how hard we try. And maybe it's an in-law, maybe it's whatever, these various forms we all face of rejection. We put our art out in the world and it gets no likes on social, whatever it is, like whatever we're going through. I just have that divine trust where I believe, like, oh, okay, God is saying to me, no, no, no, you're not rejected. I'm hiding your value from them because they are not assigned to your destiny. And I just think that one of the most powerful things we can do because, you know, and the fourth R, by the way, is to revel in the fact that you have become fearless when it comes to rejection and failure. And I can just sit here and share with you that, you know, I made so many mistakes building IT Cosmetics. And, you know, I believe in the power of being a lifelong student. And every day I'm making mistakes and all of that. But one of the things that I know how to do really well Like, I am fearless when it comes to rejection or failure. Like, it does not faze me at all. And it's because I've learned to change my relationship with it and the meaning I give it into new meanings I really believe. And it's literally one of the keys on how I turn an idea in my living room into a billion-dollar business. It's one of the keys on how, you know, I poured my heart and soul into Worthy, and I'm putting it out there in the world. Like I believe it's for a reason bigger than myself. So yeah, when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your entire life.

There's so much wisdom there. And I think a few, a few things that really stuck out to me is one, and you've kind of said this a few times, is that there's a narrative that we tell ourselves, there's self-talk, right? And it tends to start with an event in our life, right? It was a teacher, it could be a teacher. It could be a parent, it could be, uh, a schoolmate, but somebody says something about us, or there's some sort of event where we start feeling like, okay, I'm not beautiful, I'm not smart, or I'm not worthy. And then maybe it's reinforced over time via other people or through ourselves. And so we start to believe these things about ourselves, and it starts to, as you said, it impacts our identity even to that level. And, you know, I think about this for yourself, I think about this for a lot of people I know who have been successful is if you believe that lie, think about what your life would look like now if you just bought in completely to that lie, right? You wouldn't even have tried. You would've just started giving up. You would've at some point just said, this isn't worth it, and gone and done something else. And so, I love so much that you sort of shared, so, you know, in such a real way, your story. And I think as well, when I think about this too, the process is really powerful because what you're doing is you're rewriting your story, right? It's like you could see yourself, Jamie, as, you could see yourself as the victim, right? I mean, somebody came in and said something horrendous to you, and it's maybe happened— it maybe happened multiple times in life. And you could have said, you know what, I'm a victim here, this isn't fair. And that's the story. But you chose to be the hero of the story, right? You chose to— and now guide other women, become that sort of hero to them in that way. So anyways, I love what you're sharing, and I think it's so powerful. And I also want to mention, uh, I want to dive into this idea of worthy. Of how can we feel worthy if there's so many people out there right now? And I know part of it is this process you just brought us through, but what is it like, like for yourself, what does that word worthy mean and how and what's the, you know, what, what are some of the, the ways and some of the, the, the narratives people need to adopt in order to feel, feel worthy?

Yeah, it is Self-worth is the one thing that literally changes everything in every other area of your life, your relationships, your business, your goals, your dreams. Like, we, we do not rise to what we believe is possible for us in life. We will fall to what we believe we're worthy of. And in our relationships, in our friendships, in our careers, our ambitions, our goals, our dreams, like like we don't soar to the level of those goals and dreams. We stay stuck at the level of our self-worth. And another way to put it that I talk a lot about in Worthy in the book is how in life we actually don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. And there are a lot of people that maybe know what they want and they think that's enough, or then they take action and they work so, so, so hard and build all the skills and the confidence to be really good at it. And then they may even go a step further and know their why, for why they're doing what they're doing, which is so important. But all of that isn't enough often to get the thing you want unless you also learn to believe you're worthy of it. And a couple big things that I wanna share, and I wrote Worthy, it's packed with 20 tools on how to build self-worth. And I go over all of the lies that lead to self-doubt and how do you ignite those truths that wake up worthiness. Because what I've seen happen and what I lived through, and I think so many entrepreneurs or passionate people or high achievers or perfectionists have gone through this, what I'm about to share. And a lot of people go through it their whole life and never understand why they still, no matter how much they achieve, no matter how much they accomplish, no matter how many of their big dreams have happened, they still don't feel enough. They still feel like something's missing. And one of the biggest epiphanies I've ever had in my life was after I thought I had accomplished all of it. The company sold for $1 billion. I got invited to lunch with Oprah, which I dreamed of my whole life. I'd been on the Forbes list, like you shared. All these things were happening. I finally, I was very confident. And let me just pause for a minute, okay? Because this is so important. So many of us confuse self-confidence with self-worth, and they're very different. So many of us think what we need is more self-confidence, but what we actually need is self-worth. And really quickly, self— and this is huge for your business, for your life, for your fulfillment, for your joy. Self-confidence, while it's an internal trait, is based so much on the external. It's based on our own assessment of our skills and abilities, based on how we think we stack up and compare to others and measure up against others, our willingness to try and go for it, our ability to keep promises to ourselves, how much of the world's definition of success we have. You know, and our confidence is actually fragile. It's volatile. It rises and falls all the time, right? There's a study that shows The boxer who wins the match is automatically 30% more confident. Our confidence fluctuates. Our self-worth is the deep internal knowing that you are worthy of love and belonging exactly as you are, not as you achieve, not as what's happening all around you, exactly as you are, exactly as God made you. And if you think right now, and just to ask everyone this question, If you've ever had a big goal or dream and you thought, once I get that thing, then I'll be happy, then I'll be fulfilled, then I'll be enough. And for some people it's their business hitting a certain threshold, or for other people it's when I finally find that romantic partner, or when I get married or have kids or get the six-pack abs or the dream car, whatever it is. And then you work so, so, so hard. Whether it's for months or years or decades, and you finally get that thing. And then what happens if you arrive at that thing and you're like, huh, I thought this was going to solve all my problems and make me feel so happy and fulfilled and fully enough. And then we get there. And for a lot of us, we're happy for like a month or a week. And before we know it, we're back to feeling like something's missing. And if this has ever happened to you, it's because in the pursuit of those goals and dreams, we build a lot of confidence. We have a lot of growth. Those things are really important. But none of them build self-worth. And if we fundamentally do not believe we are enough as we are, which is a lie, by the way, but if we believe that, it does not matter how much we accomplish, how much of the world's definition of fame, success, money, contentment, whatever it is that we achieve, we still— you still take you with you. And so many people have built all this self-confidence and they feel like something's missing in their lives. So then they think, something must be missing in my marriage. I'm feeling like it's not enough, or I'm going to quit this job. I'm feeling like it's not enough. I'm feeling unfulfilled. And what they don't realize is they don't have a net worth problem. They have a self-worth problem. Like, when you fundamentally do not feel you are enough underneath it all, no amount of self-confidence, no amount of achievement, No amount of the world definition of success can ever solve that. And the way I learned this was after my entire life's dream of like meeting Oprah. Since I was a little girl, I always dreamed of it. And I had sold my company and all the things were happening that you shared in the beginning. And I was so confident, Josh. And then I got invited to her house for lunch. She and I had a 3-hour lunch. At the very end of it, she gave me her cell phone number and said, "You can call me anytime. Call me anytime." And the lunch was so good. And I left there and I did not call her for 4 years. And in that 4-year window, I told myself things like, "Oh, I just need to think of the perfect thing to say," or, "Oh, everyone wants something from her. I'm going to prove I don't," all those things. And 4 years later, I realized I didn't call her because deep down inside, I didn't believe I was worthy. Of being her friend. And here's how low self-worth shows up in our life. When we really have low self-worth, we can have all the confidence and skills and abilities and look like we're crushing it to everyone on the outside. But if underneath it all we don't feel we're enough and we have low self-worth, we will stay stuck. We'll never go for the thing. If we have some self-worth, we'll go for the things but will sabotage them, which is what I did with meeting Oprah. I had all the confidence in the world, but underneath it all, I didn't have strong self-worth at the time, even though to the world it looked like I must just be— have it all. And if we have medium to high self-worth but not super high, what that looks like is we'll go for the things, we'll even get the things, but we arrive at them not feeling fulfilled, perpetually unfulfilled, like something's missing, like we're not enough forever. And so building self-worth and first of all, just being aware of it. I know right now there's going to be someone listening to us that's like, oh my goodness, this episode was for me. I had— I thought I had a— I just needed more self-confidence. I needed to achieve more when really that's not the thing. The thing is like, how do I learn truly to believe I'm enough exactly as I am? And The last thing I'll say is a lot of people worry, well, wait, if I believe I'm enough as I am, am I going to lose my ambition? I don't want to lose my ambition. And it's like, no, actually, when you believe you're enough as you are, like, you become more ambitious because it doesn't really— you're fearless about what will happen if you fail or fall flat on your face or any of the other things, because you know it doesn't impact your self-worth, which is unwavering. So it's really The One Thing That Changes Everything. And the very first step, which I hope and pray is happening for, for someone in this episode right now, too, is just that, like, wow, the awareness of this. And then going, how do I take steps to build that self-worth? And so it's really why I wrote Worthy. There's a whole chapter. Well, there's over 20 tools in the book on how you do this. There's also a chapter for anyone who has a strong relationship and has strong faith in their life. On how believing God's Word over your own self-doubt can be one of the quickest self-worth shortcuts. There's so many in there, but it's just— I'm so excited. You can probably feel me like jumping through, like jumping out of my chair because it's just the one thing that that day I realized, wow, I don't feel worthy, was the day I became obsessed with studying self-worth. And I did call Oprah that day. We taught a course together this year. Like so many things would have never happened. Because I came so close to doubting myself out of my own destiny.

Wow. It's, it's, it's an amazing message. And I think, as you said, there are so many people struggling with this, you know, feeling unworthy, this level of self-doubt. And, and by the way, I want to encourage everybody, you know, run out and get Jamie's book Worthy. You can simply go on amazon.com and just search, uh, you know, Jamie, you know, Jamie Kern Lima Worthy. You'll find it there. It's in bookstore stores nationwide. It's all over the place. So, uh, check out her book, Worthy. I want to encourage you, buy it now. This is something I'm buying for other people. I'm going to give to people in my company, to friends and family, because I think that this is something that can really change someone's life. So I want to encourage you to get the book, uh, right now, as I'm excited to, to dive in. I kind of perused a little bit, you know, a little bit as well, but to read the whole thing— I, I, um, you know, Jamie, I would love for you to share— I know you have 22 things in your book Could you share maybe 3 things that can help people start to build a feeling or a real sense of their worthiness, you know, right now?

Yeah. So the very most important is just be aware, like, oh my gosh, this is an issue. I don't feel enough. And I thought by achieving more I would feel enough. And to realize that's actually a lie is big. And so, and so just being aware of also just how self-worth shows up in every area of your life, and then making the decision. And this is especially big for women and for men. So here's the challenge for women and for men when it comes to self-worth. Men think it's a women's issue. And but when you look at the data, like 73% of men feel inadequate, unworthy, and like they're not enough. And then women think strong— building strong self-worth and self-love is selfish. And it could not be any farther from the truth. So those two things are really important to overcome. When you're a man, typically you think, oh, you know, that's for someone else, when really the majority of men struggle with this. And you'll see it, you'll see it everywhere. You can look at a number of successful men in business and leadership and politics. It doesn't matter when they have a fundamental self-worth issue. You see how it manifests everywhere. And, and you'll sabotage things and everything else. This, this impacts business and impacts leadership in every area. And for women, there's this lie that we believe, you know, we can take care of everyone else and love on everyone else, but self-love or self-worth is selfish. And that is such an important lie to unlearn, because when you look at all the data and all the studies, they show We're only able to— the depth of love and connection, true love and connection, not do we show up for someone and try to meet their needs, but the actual depth of love and connection we have with another human being can only ever be as deep as the depth of love and connection we have with ourselves. And so many women in particular have kind of just believed this lie that self-love or self-worth is selfish and that, you know, they just need to be here to love everyone else. The greatest act of love, for everyone around you who you care about is to learn to build your own self-worth. Because in doing that, you give an example to every girl, every person, everyone else that you love and care about, how about how to do that for themselves. Your ability to believe you are worthy is a direct reflection and example to them that they also are worthy of feeling worthy. So that's a big thing. And then 3 quick things you can do. So the, the redefining rejection and failure is a big one because a lot of us have let labels stick to us. That instead of just again thinking, oh, I've made past mistakes, I've done bad things, I've failed, we think I'm a mistake, I'm bad, I'm a failure. And learning how to replace that is a big one. The next one is a really, really easy one to start building our internal self-worth. Um, so, okay, which one do I want to dive in first? There's a whole section on 5 self-worth shortcuts in a chapter called Do You See You? And it's about how so many of us live disassociated. We're running around people pleasing for everyone else, taking care of everyone else, and we actually don't even know who we are, how we feel. Uh, we're not even tapped into all of that. And so it's a chapter about how to connect with yourself. And one of the self-worth shortcuts in there, um, is, uh, well, let me see which one do I— I'll try to dive into 3 really fast. Um, because you can start doing them right now. But there is a saying, a famous saying that we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are, which is why, you know, hurt people hurt people, or people that are always seeing the, you know, things as negative, you know, they don't see the beautiful rose. They see the stem with all the thorns and complain there's too many thorns because that's how their reflection themselves inside is being projected on what they see outside. And so there's that famous saying, we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. The reverse can also be true. And what I mean by that is if you're somebody that you struggle to see the good in yourself, you struggle to see your own self-worth, maybe on a daily basis the things you say to yourself about yourself are not so loving and positive. And for a lot of people, that's the case if we actually pay attention to our thoughts. It's so important to recognize that and to just decide the reverse is true, which means, uh, instead of saying people don't see things as they, as they are, they see them as they are, you can also say that you can see yourself as things are. And what that means— try not to make it confusing— what that means is if you have struggled to see the beauty and the goodness and the worth in yourself, start by intentionally seeing the beauty and the good and the worth in all of the things around you. Because when we've seen the things we perceive as wrong with us over and over and over and over, right, we carve deep neural pathways and, and to try and reverse them. When you start seeing the good and the positive in every single thing around you, and I'm talking about simple things, Josh, like when you wake up in the morning, Just being like, just taking a moment, being like, wow, I have clean, dry sheets. How blessed am I? Wow. Feel the softness of this pillow. Like when we're, when we're washing dishes, this is going to sound ridiculous, a ridiculous example, but we're washing dishes like, wow, I have like the suds of the soap and the sponge. I have clean water. Like, how cool is this that the soap just gets the food right off the plate? Like these are simple things, but when we start focusing on the good, the beauty in things around us, before you know it, you build patterns and habits and you cannot help but start to notice the good things within you and the worth within you. And it's one very simple step to try and retrain what you focus on and what you see, because a lot of people struggle to see the good inside of them. And I just want to call this out quickly that, you know, you look at the studies on negativity bias and how some of them say, like, you need, you know, you know, for every one negative thing you read online or every one negative interaction, you need four positive interactions just to have a neutral, a neutral space. When we think, especially for women, by the way, when we think about the things we tell ourselves about ourselves, Most of us are not saying 4 positive things for every 1 negative thing just to stay neutral, right? And so really intentionally working on reversing that is, is, is really a big thing. The second thing is, uh, the second shortcut to, to self-worth is when you're struggling to see your own worth, focus on your own intentions. I think most people feel they— that they're a good person and that they have good intentions. And we believe at our core that people with good intentions are worthy. And so when we start to pay attention not to our perceived flaws or this or that or whatever, but when we actually focus on our own good intentions and acknowledge them every day, it actually starts to slowly build your self-worth. Because at our core, we have that belief that that, you know, people are deserving of good things, who have good intentions. People with good intentions are worthy. One of my favorite, my favorite for anyone who has strong faith. This is one of my favorite things for me. I'm Christian. I pray. I have a relationship with Jesus. I'm very— it's been a whole lifelong thing of building it. And one day, Josh, I had this moment where I realized Okay, wait a minute. I say I believe God's Word. I say I'm made in His image and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. But then why, when I'm about to walk into a room, I feel like I'm not enough, like I don't belong? And what I realize is, wait a minute, who am I actually doubting? Am I doubting myself? No, no, I'm actually trusting my own thoughts. And I'm doubting God's Word. And for me, this has been— and for anyone who practices faith in their life, I think this is one of the most powerful self-worth hacks, really, is making the decision at any moment when you are tempted to hear your own doubt and your own negative thoughts and all of that, to intercept them in that moment and say, wait a minute, What does God say about me? Who does God say I am? If God was sitting here looking at me face to face, who would He tell me I am? Would He tell me how I'm made? Would He tell me I belong in this room, that I'm fully equipped and fully— all of it, right? And I intercept it and I make the decision to trust God's Word over my own thoughts. And I literally will say to myself, when I'm tempted to feel like I don't belong, or even walking into this interview with you, Josh, if I'm tempted to think thoughts like, I I got nothing to offer. What if no one cares about Worthy the book? What if— like, all those thoughts will come into my head, right? Which is the human part of us. But that self-doubt is not where God lives. And I will literally go, who am I going to doubt? Because if I'm doubting myself, what I'm really doing is trusting my thoughts, doubting God's word. And there's a whole chapter in Worthy the book called Who Are You Doubting? Like, who are you really doubting in those words? And it's how to, how to make the decision in any moment to trust God's Word over your own self-doubt. And it's an instant reminder of your own worth, of your own identity. Like, every time I'm about to walk in a room where I'm tempted to feel like I don't belong, like, I literally intentionally will remember who's walking in with me. Whose I am and who I am. And so trusting God's word and that you believe what you say you believe is one of the— one of my favorite ways to instantly remind yourself of who you are and, and build that self-worth back up.

Well, I, I love that you shared that, and I think that obviously that's a powerful— I know for me, you know, being a person, a very similar person of faith, it's that I, uh, you know, being able to focus primarily on what God says about me, right? That I'm beloved, that I'm his child, that he's a purpose for my life. So all those things. And so I think those are really, really powerful, uh, really, really powerful things to meditate on and to make part of our identities and our story. And I love, I love so much that you shared that. Last couple things I'd love to ask you about, um, you know, I know that As we had talked before, I know you were speaking at an event for Erwin McManus, and I saw you, I think last year, spoke at an event for John Maxwell. And so, I know you've been able to be around a lot of amazing people. You mentioned Oprah earlier. And being around some of these incredible people, what is something maybe you've learned or maybe something somebody said to you that is maybe the biggest thing you've learned or the best piece of advice you've ever received from from some of these incredible people?

Well, I think the most powerful thing I've learned is that every single one of them deals with self-doubt too. Every single one of them is a lifelong student, constantly working on building their own self-worth. Right? I, you know, John Maxwell, in his, what, 70 books he's written and millions and millions and millions of copies and so many millions of people he's impacted all over the world. He is the same as Oprah, as Tony Robbins, as Irwin. When I'm at an event with them, like, John Maxwell will be taking more notes than anybody. I think I take a lot of notes at events. He, I mean, So I would say, A, that they all deal with self-doubt. And I want to share that because for anyone listening who thinks, oh, people like that must be different than I am, right? We're in this technology-driven world where we go on Instagram and YouTube and all of that. And I love Instagram. I scroll it every day. And also, I don't see anyone on there like talking about all the real stuff they're going through. It just all looks so good. And I think for, you know, hopefully, at least for me, it helped me feel less alone and more enough when I realized, oh, wow, even these touted visionaries, some have been my mentors from afar or heroes my whole life. They're just like me. They deal with self-doubt. They're lifelong students, you know, constantly growing. And so I would say that's That's probably the big thing. But I mean, I grew up with 5 different families, being adopted, and I am so blessed and love my families. And also, I am the only one that I'm aware of, of anybody in any of my families that's like a lifelong student that wants to go, that gets off the stage at a John Maxwell event and then sits there and watches the other speakers and take notes. Because I love it. You know what I mean? Like, and so it just, you know, it was— I don't know. I am— I think, I think that would probably be the one thing is just for anyone who needs to feel less alone and more enough and thinking that, you know, those people must be different than you. They all deal with self-doubt too. And I think also the second thing I would say is, and Oprah actually said this, that at the end of every interview she's done, whether it was with George Bush or Beyoncé or an ax murderer, it didn't matter. At the end of every interview, the person would be like, how was it? How was it? And she said what she realized is every single person has this common thread where they just want to know, did you see— did you hear me? Do you see me? Did what I say matter to you? And for me, I took away one of the greatest leadership lessons, right, which is at our core, we all just want to be seen and know that we matter. And I think like, I remember building IT Cosmetics and we eventually built over 1,000 employees, but in the early years I could not pay what our competitors paid, but I was able to recruit away from their companies, people that did not feel seen or like what they were doing mattered. They didn't have this clear vision and purpose for why they were working so hard. And when I was able to give that to like really see people, uh, to remind them of what is our vision and where are we going and why what they're doing matters. I was able to apply that lesson to employee retention, uh, but also in just in relationships, right? How many times are you arguing with your partner or whatever? And you know, if you just stop and just go, let me really try to hear what you're saying. We don't want to say that. We want to say, no, you're wrong. We just actually hear them. And this is all they need. People just want to be heard and seen and know that they matter. So that was another, another, another big lesson. And so, by the way, really fast to add this, I know it might be like too many tips on one show, but I write about all— I write about how to do this in the book because in the book Worthy, and it's in the chapter called Do You See You? So many people feel unseen in this world. So many people feel unseen. And in particular for people, especially women, but, you know, 50— over 50% of women identify as people pleasers, but 40% of men identify as people pleasers. When we are someone who's constantly aware of everyone else's needs and showing up for everyone, not only start to feel unseen, but we can start to feel invisible. And I talk about the importance of you know, of learning to not only feel seen. And one of the hacks to doing that is actually see other people. And so many of us have gotten in these habits in life where we actually don't see other people. And I talk about like simple things, like, for example, if you are feeling unseen or like you don't matter or any of those things, walking into a coffee shop, how many of us do that? We're on our phones. If someone says hi, we don't even necessarily make eye contact. Or maybe we do for a split second. We go about our day. We might make small talk, but we're not actually seeing each other. And one of my favorite things to do when I'm kind of feeling that disconnection from myself or from humanity or from just that feeling of aliveness is like when you walk in a coffee shop or go up to a coworker today or someone who's on your team or a neighbor, it doesn't matter. And you actually see them and you actually just ask them how they are or give them an honest compliment and just really actually make eye contact with them, at first they probably won't even be comfortable doing it. But when you just keep that conversation going for a second and actually be interested in them or share again an authentic compliment or observation like, wow, you look, you know, it seems like you love 'You make that foam so good,' like, you know, 'You're so effervescent,' or 'I love that shirt,' whatever it is. What will happen when you finally see them and they allow you to see them and you make eye contact with them? The moment they feel seen— and you can try this again with coworkers, doesn't matter who, someone at church on Sunday— the moment they actually feel seen by you, you'll see a shift in their eyes. You'll see it. You'll see the moment it happens. And the moment that shift happens is the moment they see you back. And that moment— try this today in your life— a moment you really see them, really see them, and they let themselves be seen, which we're so out of practice of in our society. They let themselves be seen. You'll see the shift in the iris of their eyes. You will see it. And that is the moment they see you back and the moment you feel seen back. And it's one of the most beautiful things that you can do to build connection, uh, and to start overcoming that disassociated state that so many of us live in.

That's so powerful. Well, Jamie, I wanna say thanks so much for sharing your wisdom today, and I wanna encourage everybody to go and get the book Worthy Right Now. It's in bookstores nationwide. Again, Jamie here is a New York Times bestselling author already, but I think this is a book that's really, really special, can really impact your life in a powerful way. And I think this is a great book, Jamie. I think you'd agree with this. This is a great book to buy one for yourself, but buy one for some other people. You know, this is a great book to do in a reading club or to just share with a friend and to talk about it, because I think so often, you know, we, we aren't going deep with people. And I think it's a great book to where you can be really vulnerable with a friend and read it together and say, hey, I'm feeling this sense of— I'm feeling rejected, I'm feeling a sense of unworthiness, and this is something that we can share together, we can go through together. And sometimes it is really helpful if, you know, we're not going through, you know, going through all this alone. Sometimes sharing, being vulnerable, and trying to grow and do breakthroughs with someone else. So again, want to encourage you, hey, get the book for yourself, get it for a friend, and if you love it, hey, recommend it to others. I know that Jamie and I are always for, uh, you know, helping pass on and bless others with wisdom. And so, Jamie, thanks so much again. I know your time is precious. So grateful for you coming on and sharing your wisdom today. And for anyone listening on YouTube, please leave a comment for what is that— what is the one thing that Jamie said that really hit you today, that blessed your life? Please let us know there on YouTube as well. So, Jamie, thanks so much again. It was incredible. Incredible lessons.

Thank you so much. I'm so, so grateful. I love what you shared. And, you know, I'm so passionate about, you know, I'm donating 100% of the proceeds of the book. Like, this is the best work of my life, and I just am so passionate about people building self-worth. It changes everything. And what you just said, Josh, I actually— I've never done this before, but I did this library card in the back of every book, like old school library card, because my hope and prayer is like, once you read your copy, that, you know, if you gift one to someone else, great, but if you pass yours on, like write your name in it and have them Like, I literally— every person who, you know, they just believed in themselves, oh my gosh, like, this is a book about how you do that. So yeah, thank you so much. It's so, so grateful to spend this time together, and I hope it— I do hope it blessed, um, people part of it with us. So thank you.

It did me. Thanks so much, Jamie. Really appreciate it. Well, everybody, hey, thanks so much for listening to another episode. Hey, if you're not subscribed, hey, make sure to subscribe to the podcast. We have some other incredible interviews coming out. Of course, we had Jamie here, we've had Erwin McManus, we've got Tim Tebow coming up, and some others. So again, thanks so much for sharing this, thanks so much for subscribing, and praying everybody has a blessed week. Thanks a lot. Thanks again to Jamie Kern Lima for sharing her wisdom with us today. Have a great week, everybody.