If You’re Not Happy, You’re Not Serving | Evan Carmichael’s Keys to Fulfillment

If you were to go back and talk to the person you were 5 years ago or 10 years ago or 19-year-old you or whatever it was, and just imagine that they're on a park bench and you got 5 minutes to go and talk to younger you, could you help that person? It's like, yeah, you know, I, I know what I would say. I can go back and help that person. I could give that person some great advice. It's like, okay, well, if you can help that person, recognize that there are millions of people right now who are younger you and they need your help. People will learn from you, but they won't learn from me. We might even say similar things, but like the way that you say it, it just connects with people differently than the way that I say it. We, we are wired to serve others. We all want to feel like we matter to somebody else. Like, to, to ourselves is not enough. We are built to serve. And some of us, you know, you and I, we wanna serve the world. We have big missions. We wanna have a big impact. We have, we have content that we know can help And if you woke up every day and felt like you don't matter and you're driving to a job that you hate and nobody cares if you show up or not or give your best and you're doing work that is meaningless, if that was what you were doing every day, which I think is most people, uh, then that's the path to unhappiness and stress and sadness and depression and suicide because you feel like you don't matter. But if you woke up every day and felt like this might matter, like what I'm doing today might matter to somebody, whether it's a big thing like making a video, I'm gonna come on the Growth Lab, and we're going to inspire millions of people. Amazing. Or just, I'm going to show up for my wife today. Like, just one person. If you felt like today was going to matter, you show up with a completely different energy.

Hey everyone, Dr. Josh Axe here. Welcome to the Growth Lab Podcast, where each and every week we cover the science behind how to grow yourself, your health, your wealth, and take your career and relationships to the next level. This week as a guest, I wanna welcome Evan Carmichael. Evan is a self-made entrepreneur and YouTube sensation with over 3.7 million subscribers. And at only 19 years of age, he challenged himself by building and then selling a successful biotech software company. And at 22, he pushed further outside his comfort zone, raising up to $15 million in a venture capital firm. And then he also, uh, has launched his, his YouTube channel, which by the way, I've been watching over the years where he posts a lot of incredible inspirational and motivational content, especially highlighting a lot of entrepreneurs and leaders, uh, that are in the, um, the, the entrepreneurial space. And so Evan, hey, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Josh. Excited to, uh, step into the lab.

Awesome. Well, I mean, you have had so much success so early on in your life. I'd love to hear from you sort of your mindset and strategy about how were you— how you were able to become so successful so early on in life?

Uh, I'd probably give a lot of credit to my parents. Uh, my mom especially, she would always tell me that I'm Evan Castrilli Carmichael, I could do anything I believe that I can. And even though I wasn't necessarily the best student, I wasn't failing, I had Bs and Cs in school, but somehow my mom with the voice, you know, in my ear kept reminding me that I could do anything I put my mind to. And It's really cool to be an entrepreneur now, and I'm 43. So when I, when I was getting out of school, you know, to be an entrepreneur, you kind of had to be unemployable. And so I thought I wanted to be an investment banker, as my high school yearbook says. But I give a lot of credit to my parents who, who fed a lot of great positive information into my mind, even though I wasn't getting the societal results of, you know, straight A's at school. Um, they helped me believe in myself to go off and do the crazy things that I had in my mind. And, um, now luckily I, you know, we've got my channel, your channel, and we, we are that for a lot of people now. You know, people are watching Growth Lab and they may not have parents who believe in them or, uh, people around them who tell 'em they can do great things, but they're tuning into, to your show and learning from you and say, hey, you know, if Josh says I can do it, maybe I can.

Yeah, it's so true. You know, I think it's so important that, uh, we, uh, let certain people speak into our lives and not let others. You know, I think, I think that a lot of times people never get started because they have this fear of disappointing other people, or somebody says they can't, and this builds these limiting beliefs in their life. And obviously, you, you know, had, as you mentioned, supportive parents, and so did I. And that's, I think, just, uh, really, really can be really important, whether it be parents or someone else that's sort of cheering you on. But even in spite of You know, I think that obviously there are people who have gone and done it even though they had almost everybody saying no. You know, one of the other things I wanted to ask you about was, um, just your growth. I know you started your YouTube channel back in 2009 with the goal of helping entrepreneurs through video, and I saw, I saw you say something once where you, you said that you only had a, like, 3 total comments on your first several videos you posted. I think a lot of people, maybe they start posting and trying to build a brand on Instagram Instagram or YouTube or Facebook, and at first they just don't get any, any posts, so they sort of give up on that dream. Talk to me about how you continue to have that sort of resilience and positivity and hopefulness in building your brand, even when at first you really weren't getting, you know, many views at all.

Yeah, so when I started, YouTube famous wasn't even a thing, right? I mean, I don't know when you— you're kind of OG on YouTube too, you've been around for a couple minutes.

Yep.

Uh, you know, when I started in 2009, nobody had a million subscribers. There were no thought leadership videos, there's no podcasts. It was, it was just throw up some random videos. And so the idea of being YouTube famous or this even being a million subscriber channel, this has never even crossed my mind. Um, that being said, I always just focus on who I am serving instead of who I'm not. And when I got 50 views on a video, it's like 50 people saw this video. I was so jazzed that 50 people saw a video. It's like if you were to go and give a, a speech at the beginning of your career at a library and 50 people showed up, you'd be freaking out. Like, 50 people are here to come and see me talk. It's crazy. And yet when we just see a number on a screen, we feel like, oh, that's nothing. Only 50 people saw it. I must, I must suck. I'm not as good as Dr. Axe or Evan or whoever, right? And so we, we tend to to quit on ourselves. Uh, so the, the who I'm not game never ends, right? I mean, I've got 3 point whatever million subscribers. Why is it not, why is it not 5? Why is it not 10? Why is it not 50? You know, like that. And that's a growth opportunity. But if we're only looking at, you know, what we're not instead of all the things that we have done, then I think that's what leads a lot of people to quit. So, uh, I just always focus on who I was serving. So to your point about The 3 comments, my first video in 1 year had 3 comments on it. It was my mom and my older sister. Uh, and then some random guy, you know, like 1 guy who left a comment and 1 year of my video, my first video being up, this random guy left a comment and I held on every one of those early comments as just proof that, okay, this is helping people, you know, may not be changing the world yet, but it's helping 1 person at a time, which is why I always encourage also, you know, people and, you know, your viewers watching this, it's great to support me and great support Josh. Um, but if there's some small creators who you follow and you like their content, leave a comment. Just let them know, because that comment might make this the difference between them continuing on this journey and quitting, right? Like, I'm going to keep going. Josh is going to keep going. We're on our journey. I'm excited for, for your new venture, uh, this pivot into mindset and, um, personal development. But for a lot of people, that one comment If they don't get it, they might quit. And even though you love them. So any small creator out there that you follow, just a call to action or a challenge, just leave a comment. Let them know what your, what, uh, what their content means to you. And that might mean the difference between them quitting or continuing on.

Well, Evan, I love what you're sharing here, cuz I think this is a really big deal. I think most people start focusing on, well, people didn't compliment me or I didn't have very many views, but views at first. But you said your, your goal was you wanted to serve people. You wanted to improve their lives. You wanted to add value to them. And And I do think that's the most important thing. And I think is if, if, if anybody's watching this who is saying, hey, I want to be an influencer on social media and impact people, uh, in a big way, it's important to understand that mindset that Evan shared, I think is so important, is that I am here to serve people, add value to them. And that is your number one focus. Now, one of the things I know that holds people back, and I, I, I've actually, I know one of the things that you've said before, something that held you back in a way was trying to be perfect. It was being a perfectionist. Talk to me about how you overcame being a perfectionist and what being a perfectionist can do, or how it could actually harm your ability to influence others.

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm a, I'm a recovering perfectionist. I'm still, still working my way through it, but I lost a $40 million deal when I was 21, 22, uh, because of, I was being a perfectionist and I had a chance to sell my company and it's like, Okay, not yet, not yet, not yet. I need the perfect plan, the perfect plan. And then, uh, I was, I was too late and we lost a huge deal. And from there I vowed to value the progress over the perfection. And that's something that you learn as you get in personal development and watch videos and learn from, you know, legendary entrepreneurs. They'll always talk about the progress over the perfection. But when I was 19, I had no idea, uh, and so that ended up really hurting me and losing a giant deal. And sometimes you learn the best lessons through painful moments like that. I think when people are trying to get started in, in this career, they're trying to create content, we default to saying, well, I need a professional camera. Look at how good Josh looks and look at how good Evan looks and what's that microphone they're using and look at their camera and it looks so professional and they're so polished and their background is so set up and it, it makes them feel like they can't do it. Where I'll still film videos off my phone. For my channel, right? It's not ideal, but if I'm traveling, I'll still just— videos have to go up. And I think if you expect to suck at the beginning, it doesn't mean you suck as a human, but it just means you don't have the skill sets yet. How do you get the skill sets? Well, you practice and you get better. I think the challenge is we know what looks good. You know what great looks like. You, you can watch, you know, Dr. Axe's videos here and say, wow, that looks really good. I'm not going to make anything until I can be that good. Well, unless you make, you won't get that good. And so when you start, a lot of times we know what, you know, if you have, if you have Dr. Axe at an A+, you think, okay, I, I'll, I might not be his level, but I could be like a B. If he's an A+, I could be a B. And then you go and you make your first video and you realize, oh my God, I'm an F. Like, I just totally suck at this thing. I'm not even, I'm even close to a B. And so we have these difference of expectations where if you just expect to suck at the beginning, if you just think, hey, I am I'm gonna suck. It's not gonna work out at all. But it doesn't mean I suck as a human. I just don't have the skill set yet. How do you get the skill set? Well, by practicing. So when people are on their journey of content creation, I say, don't even judge yourself in the first 100 videos. The first 100 videos, just make it and then make another one and then make another one and you'll, you'll get better. If you don't get better over 100 videos, then you suck. But I've never seen it not happen. Like you're gonna get better in that process. And I think, you know, The pursuit of perfection, or the fear of not being perfect, kills more dreams than almost anything else.

It's so good. It's so good. I was reading, uh, and, and you're, you're, I think you're familiar with her, Carol Dweck. She wrote a book called Mindset, right? And she gets into fixed versus growth mindset. This fixed mindset of I've got to be perfect is paralyzing. It keeps people from even getting started, versus a growth mindset's all about, well, the goal is not to get a million followers or this. The goal is just I want to get better over time, you know. And so really focusing on just doing it and then getting better over time rather than focusing on the age, just focus on, no, I'm just going to try and get better. I think it's just such a powerful mindset, you know. I think one of the other things that I know that I've experienced, I'm sure you have as well, is anytime you're trying to, um, grow your business or have more influence and influence others, you know, life happens and we've got to be resilient. What are some of the things that you have done, uh, and, and by the way, I'd even, I'd even be curious, have you had anything happen in your time of going from 0 to 3.7 million followers? Any sort of valleys or trials or tribulations that you thought, well, how I'm going to overcome this? And you were able to, as you've been building, you know, building your, uh, building your brand?

The first one was just getting help. So on my homepage, I show my year-over-year journey And it was, it was rough, Josh, at the beginning. Like year 1, I had 25 subscribers. Uh, it took me 5 years to get to 2,000 subscribers. So most people are already ahead of me in their journey as they get started. Uh, so in the first 5 years I went from 0 to 2,000, and then the next 5 years it went from 2,000 to over a million. I forget what the, the number was, but it's on my website. Wow. Uh, well, like, so what made the difference? Well, one, I took it more seriously. Um, and two, I got help. You know, I sought out people who can give me advice, who could watch my videos and give me feedback and say, here's where you can get better. Where at the beginning when you're just creating and you're just doing everything all on your own, it's really hard to grow. And I think back to the perfectionist thing, I was too afraid to join communities, to join programs, to ask for help. I thought I got to figure this all out on my own. Like, That's kind of what we're taught in school. Like you memorize and practice and study on your own. And so like, I need to do this all by myself. And it wasn't really until I reached out and asked for help and got feedback that I started to grow. And then we saw, you know, pretty quick results as a result of, uh, not just trying to do everything all on my own. Hmm.

That's so good. You know, how do you deal, deal with sort of this fear, uncertainty, or even imposter syndrome? Right. I think a lot of people think, well, who am I to be giving, you know, advice or telling people how to be successful if I haven't quite done it yet. You know, did you have that in your career and what, what, and how did you overcome that?

Yeah, I'm still working through it.

You know, we all are. Yeah.

You don't know that you're ever done. You know, we're never done growing. That's why we all have to keep stepping into the Growth Lab. There's always a new thing to get better and improve on. Uh, but yeah, I mean, when I first got it started, I, I looked up to the Tony Robbins and the Les Browns and the, the people who are, you know, making content and been in this space and realize, what am I gonna share that Tony Robbins hasn't already shared? Like, how am I gonna be any different? And, and it took me a long time to even tell my story. And we would do profiles of different entrepreneurs on a channel, and the number one request, we'd always say, who else do you want me to profile next? At the end of a profile, uh, the number one request was always me. Like, what do you want to hear me? Like, I mean, sure, I, you know, you've listed a couple accolades at the beginning, but that's nothing compared to Steve Jobs and Elon Musk and Walt Disney and all the people that I'm profiling. Like, why do you care about me? And so that was a big, uh, process to unwind, to, to figure out, oh, like, my story actually adds value. And so to get over imposter syndrome, what I realized was If you were to go back and talk to the person you were 5 years ago or 10 years ago, or 19-year-old you or whatever it was, and just imagine that they're on a park bench and you got 5 minutes to go and talk to younger you, could you help that person? It's like, yeah, you know, I, I know what I would say. I can go back and help that person. I could give that person some great advice. It's like, okay, well, if you can help that person, recognize that there are millions of people right now who are younger you. And they need your help. And people will learn from you in a way where they won't learn from Tony Robbins or Les Brown or anybody else because of your story and your background and the way that you position and the way that you, uh, the, the words that you use and the way that you explain things will be different than somebody else. People will learn from you, but they won't learn from me. We might even say similar things, but like the way that you say it, it just connects with people differently than the way that I say it. And so most people, I see us as we're climbing this mountain of growth, and whoever you think is ahead of you, you know, you're the Tony Robbins or Les Brown, they're at step number 10,000, you know, and I'm, I'm at step 800, they're way ahead of me. But even if I'm at step 800, where are most people stuck? Like step 1. Most people are at the beginning. Most people have no idea how to get started. So if you're at step 800, if you're at step 5, You can get people to step 4 because you've done it. Mm-hmm. Now you can't help somebody get to step 20 if you're at step 5, right? And that's where people might overpromise, overdeliver, or say they've done something that they haven't done. So like, don't do that. Uh, but most people are stuck at the beginning and however far you've gotten, you can reach back and help other people get to where you've gotten. And every time you take another step up on that mountain, you reach back and you help people get to where you're at. And so it's less about imposter syndrome of comparing yourself to, you know, Les Brown or whoever, uh, and it's more about looking backwards and say, holy cow, I've come really far compared to who I used to be. And there's lots of people who currently are who I used to be and they need help.

I mean, you know, Evan, that perception is so important because I think if you start comparing yourself to Tony Robbins or Elon Musk or Sarah Blakely or Ray Dalio, whoever it is, you just, you're seeing such a far distance you have to go and it almost almost just seems an impossible distance, right? Versus if instead your focus is saying, okay, I was on step 0, but I'm on step 10 now. Well, I've actually come up— hey, I've grown, I've come a pretty long way. And then also saying, hey, you know, uh, Josh and Evan, hey, they're not at, uh, you know, this level of, uh, you know, of, uh, of Elon Musk in terms of his wealth and his, his success in, in business. But, you know, hey, they're not quite as far. So anyways, I just think it's such a good point that I think that sometimes, you know, um, you know, people that aren't in that top, you know, uh, 1%, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's less intimidating to follow somebody, uh, oftentimes it's just a few steps ahead of you. So anyways, I love that point and I think it's a great one. You know what, I remember watching some of your videos over the past few years, Evan, as you did these profiles on successful people. And I'm curious, what are, what, what are a few of those profiles you've done that you felt like you learned the most from for yourself in terms of how to be more successful?

So the very first one that I did was on Kanye West. Uh, now Kanye's in all sorts of trouble now.

Sure.

And I guess he's always been in trouble over, over the years, but it seems like it's especially in trouble now. And this is, this is where, uh, you know, a lot of times we get these ideas and we just shut them down, but there's, there's magic in those ideas. So, I was never planning on doing profiles or top 10 rules videos. That wasn't really what I was thinking to do. And then I saw a blog post that a friend of mine, Mark, had posted kind of trashing Kanye about the whole Taylor Swift thing and Beyoncé had the greatest song of all time. And this is years after it happened. It's like, Mark, man, you could learn from Kanye. I mean, like, he does a lot of things that you don't need to learn from, but, you know, he went from being a a producer to a rapper to an entrepreneur to a billionaire. He won more Grammys than anybody in history at his age at the time, and he's had a ton of success. And so anybody who's ahead of you, you can learn something from. And, you know, just as an example, John Legend, his real name isn't John Legend, his name is John Stephens. And John Stephens He feels like a super nice, humble guy. You know, if you see John Legend, I don't know if you know him or seen interviews or listened to his music, but he feels like a really nice guy. He's friends with Kanye, which already seems weird. Like, how are these two friends? They feel complete polar opposites. But Jon Stevens and young Kanye are sitting at a bar in Chicago, and Jon Stevens says, I feel like I belong in a different era. Like, this isn't— this isn't— I'm an old soul. Like, this isn't my music right now. More like Sinatra-era kind of singer. And Kanye says, you should call yourself the Legend. And John Stevens says, but I'm just getting started, like, I'm at the beginning of my career. How do I call myself a legend when I'm just at the start? And Kanye convinced him to change his stage name to John Legend. So even if you hate Kanye and what he says and what he stands for and the stupid things that he does, and, and I'm definitely not defending all of all of Kanye, but are you as good a friend to your friends like Kanye was to Jon Stevens? You know, do you think big like he does and encourage the people around you like he does? And so there were stories like that around Kanye that I said, I wish people knew this stuff too. And it doesn't forgive him for stuff that he's done, but you don't need to be the next Kanye, but you could take 1% of him to help you be better. So I was so upset at my friend Mark for that post. That I said, I'm gonna throw away the day today. Whatever I was supposed to do, videos I was supposed to make, I'm not doing those. And I'm gonna make a top 10 rules for success video on Kanye West. And, uh, I included that clip and other clips that, that I found inspiring from Kanye. And we put it up, uh, and it did well. And it was really just a watch this video, Mark, you know, learn something, uh, just as I got you to my friend. And it ended up taking off. And then people said, hey, can you do Jeff Bezos and Dame Dash and Elon Musk and Steve Jobs and, It's like, okay, yeah, like that was fun and put together. And so you never know where some of these things will take you. It was meant to be this one-off thing just to stick it to my friend Mark, and it turned into this thing that I became known for. And so I love learning from people who've had more success than me. And there's one thing that you can learn, like there's no perfect Josh Axe. You know, there's no one person to learn from, but you can take 1% from different people to make you the best you. Uh, and so that's why I love, you know, Growth Lab. You're bringing on all these different people and they don't have to learn everything from me, but you take one thing from each of your guests that's gonna make you so much more, you know, powerful, stronger, smarter, um, as an entrepreneur, as a human to help you become the best you.

Yeah. So Evan, I'm remembering now when I first came across your channel and I was doing a search on YouTube and I was wanting to learn success principles from some of the most successful, uh, business entrepreneurs and from billionaires. And so I did a search for Steve Jobs, you know, Success Principles, and I did a similar one with Elon Musk, and you came up. I watched your video and I thought, this is so fantastic. And I don't know, you know this, but just for the audience, you take clips of some of the most profound things they've ever said and some of the most important principles that they live their life by in terms of becoming successful. And, uh, it's just really— anyways, they're really incredible. So just bravo for the job you've done on those.

Cool. And honestly, I make it for me. Like, I want to be around Steve Jobs and Elon Musk and have that in my ear daily. And some of them are great speakers. Like Steve Jobs, it's hard to find a bad clip of Steve Jobs. Yeah, but someone like Elon Musk is not a great speaker. And a lot of the clips he has is not helpful to me as an entrepreneur. Somebody asked him about, you know, the Tesla truck or whatever is not helpful to me. Um, a lot of the interviews with Kanye where they're, they're trying to get gotcha moments to make him look bad or gossip and celebrity news is like, I don't care about, that's not helping me. So what our team will do is now go through hours and hours and hours and hours of interviews and just like pull out the clips that are helpful for person of all, and for entrepreneurs, people with growth mindset that you mentioned. And, uh, I need it for me. Like I watch them every morning and it's great that enough other people like it that we can hire team and build a production, you know, studio around it too.

Yeah, I love that. You know, I know one of the things I'm sure you've noticed is you have profiled the most successful people of, of, of, uh, of our lifetime is they have a really high bar for themselves, right? Really high standards. And I've read this about you as well, that you've continued to set really ambitious goals for yourself, making big plans and, and just continuing to raise the bar. How have you cultivated such this mindset of I have excellence. So again, we talked about perfect, and I, I don't know if you have thoughts on this as well, but I, I think there's a big difference between perfectionism and excellence, right? So it seems to me like you started off and maybe holding you back a little bit perfectionism, but over time you realize that it's not about being perfect, it's about doing things with excellence. Um, am I, am I onto something there?

Yeah, it's the pursuit, you know, like excellence is the pursuit of perfection. So we're never done. What's the perfect interview? What's the perfect question? What's the perfect thumbnail? Who's the perfect guest? What's the— it's like you're never done. It's, it's never done. Uh, but that pursuit is how we become excellent. What's the perfect workout? What's the perfect book? Again, it's never done, but in the pursuit you become more and more and more excellent. And I think you'll see that across high achievers. Nobody ever says they're done. Nobody ever says this is it, it's perfect. Like there's always new things that you want to add and tweak and change and people to confer with and help and always new problems to go off and solve. And so it's, it's getting dedicated to the process and that you're getting better every day, which is, which is hard because that means you're going to fail and you're going to suck and you're going to make mistakes and you won't know until you get out there. No matter how much market research you do, you don't know until you start going off and do it. No matter what recipe you follow or workout regimen you look at, uh, you never know until you start go off and do it. And people get overwhelmed by the options. This is the problem. You know, if back to the world you came from with all of the fitness and diet and everything else, it's like, okay, I'm gonna— you start with a goal of, I want to get into a healthy weight, right? I want to get down to my high school weight or university weight or whatever. And that's a very clear, tangible, great goal. Like, let's get healthy. But then how do you do it? Do you go on the keto diet or the carnivore diet or the vegetarian diet or the vegan diet or the Mediterranean diet? And, and are you fasting, intermittent fasting, water fasting, coffee fasting, you know, or are you doing working out? Are you CrossFitting? Are you yogaing? Are you doing high intensity, low intensity? It's like, it's just, it's just this never-ending cycle of more and more and more things to learn. Well, you will never learn everything. It's impossible. To know everything. And so you need to just start, and you learn more in the process of doing than you will just researching, researching, researching, and like planning to get a plan. And so that's what you find with the— at least that's what I found with the world's top achievers, is they have this North Star that they're shooting towards, and that is a bold, noble, excellent, even perfect goal. And then how you get there is super messy and very chaotic and full of mistakes, but they're willing to go and make mistakes because the goal itself is noble. Um, and so that's what I'm trying to do. That's what you've got going with Growth Lab. Uh, interview, whatever number this is, is already better than interview number 1, and you learn your mistakes along the way. Like, nobody is Joe Rogan out of the gate, right? And you make all those mistakes and in that process you learn.

That's so good. Again, I think this, this, this, so much of this is about your mindset, right? Again, I think so many people are afraid of failure, so they don't try, or they start trying, but then they also don't say, I'm going to get better and better and better over time. You know, what, what are some things that you have done over time? You think about 2009, right? That's when you started. It's almost 14, almost 15 years later, right? 15 years. Wow. And so over that 15 years, what are some ways that you went from an F to a D to a C to a B to an A in, in your content creation?

So the most important are just the habits and routines, rituals and environment. Because if you woke up every day and felt like you want to, you want to get better today, you want to strive for excellence today, you may not achieve excellence on any day, but in the, in the— if that was your constant mindset, you will accomplish great things. And so for me, Uh, I make my videos for me. Like, if you listen to Steve Jobs and Elon Musk and all these people every day, you're gonna want to get better. Like, it's— if you listen to a Growth Lab every day, you may not love every single guest, but like, you're gonna get better every day. It's gonna happen. So if you— I don't know how many, how many episodes of Growth Lab have come out.

I mean, so this is a newer show, but we probably— my guess is about 25 or 30, probably about 30.

Great. So like 30 episodes, you've listened to one a day for the next month, you're going to be a different human out of 30 days than when you started. If you're swapping out a Netflix show and subbing in a Growth Lab show, you're just going to be feeling different, more confident, more powerful, have more skills. And it's— and that mindset shift permeates into the work that you're doing every day. So the translation for me in the YouTube world would be, okay, how do I How do I make more powerful videos? How do I change my opening? How do I tweak my thumbnails? What am I gonna call this video? What's my next piece of content gonna be? And we can dive in all those specific YouTube tactics if you'd like. But on the high level, it's even feeling worthy of being a, a YouTuber, even feeling worthy of being an author or an entrepreneur or a great husband or a whatever it is. And so most of the people who are watching this show, You're probably already the most ambitious person that you know. Like, you're the one— if you, if you follow Dr. Axe, you're probably the one already pouring into the people around you. You're the happiest person in your circle, and that's great. Like, continue to pour into people. And like, who's pouring into you? Who's making you better? Who's making you feel not inadequate, that you suck and you're like so far away from being a Les Brown or whoever, but that you are capable of doing more? And that's what I found by either being in groups. And I don't know if you're around, you know, part of any groups or masterminds or, or communities.

Oh yeah.

But when you're around people who are thinking bigger, it just forces you to wanna play a bigger game. And if, and if you're not and you can't afford that and you're just getting started, content makes a huge difference because you will emerge differently if you listen to an episode a day, right? It's like going to the gym. If you go to the gym for an hour a day and you, and even if you didn't follow a, a plan. Like, don't, don't injure yourself and do things incorrectly. But if you just went to the gym and spent an hour there running and trying out the different machines, you're going to get a little bit healthier after 30 days, right? Nothing happens after 1 day, but after 30 days you're going to start to see a difference. And so same thing with what you feed into your mind. There's the tools and the strategies and the tactics which are helpful, but without the mindset that makes you believe that you're even capable of being the person who could do these things, then no tool or strategy is going to be helpful because you just won't do it.

Yeah. Wow, it's so good. You know, one of the things I've really appreciate— I appreciated about you, Evan, is I have watched your videos and, and read up on you and even, you know, taken a peek at, uh, a new book you wrote. And that is, you know, you're, you're a believer that we're called to serve others, we're called to add value to others, we're called to contribute. And I think a lot of people sort of pursue this idea that I'm I'm going to pursue happiness and that will make me happy. Well, I can tell you, because I've done a lot of research on, on these medical studies, and what they found in study after study is if you just pursue happiness as an end in itself, you actually become less happy and less fulfilled with your life. And so talk to me a little bit about your philosophy around, um, how we actually become happy and fulfilled with our lives.

Yeah, I would split happiness into excitement and fulfillment. And I think we often get these things confused. So when you're excited, that's happy. And you can get that by going on a roller coaster. You can get that by having a sugar rush. You can, you can get that by playing a video game. Like there's a lot of things you can do to give you this excitement and that, and that's happy. Like it, you're, you're happy in the short run eating that delicious donut or doing some thrill ride or doing some kind of momentary thing that, that does bring you some moment of happiness, but it's the fulfillment that is a sustained long-term happiness, uh, at least for me. And fulfillment comes from feeling like the work you're doing means something to somebody else. We, we are wired to serve others. We all want to feel like we matter to somebody else. To ourselves is not enough, except for some like 0.00001% of people who enjoy like doing harm to others. We are built to serve. And some of us, you know, you and I, we want to serve the world. We have big missions. We want to have a big impact. We have content that we know can help. And even the fact that you're pivoting and starting Growth Lab shows that you're willing to constantly learn and adjust and improve and not just do the same thing over and over and over again. We want to have a big impact. Other people, like my wife Nina, don't have a giant mission, but they still want to serve. And she's the glue for our family. She's remembering everybody's birthdays. She's following up and asking people how they are. She's asking about their relationship, uh, things that I don't always remember. But either way, we want to serve. And if you woke up every day and felt like you don't matter, and you're driving to a job that you hate, and nobody cares if you show up or not or give your best, and you're doing work that is meaningless— if that was what you were doing every day, which I think is most people, uh, then that's the path to unhappiness and stress and sadness and depression and suicide because you feel like you don't matter. But if you woke up every day and felt like this might matter, like what I'm doing today might matter to somebody, whether it's a big thing like making a video, I'm gonna come on the Growth Lab and we're gonna inspire millions of people. Amazing. Or just, I'm gonna show up for my wife today, like just one person. If you felt like today was gonna matter, you show up with a completely different energy. Uh, and so it's not enough to do something for yourself when, when you can tie it to this is gonna help somebody else out. You have so much more power and motivation, and I think that's what leads to long-term happiness through fulfillment.

That's so good. Yeah, it's so good. You know, I, um, well, you know, I, I, I wanna ask this question because again, you're one of the best in the world at this. Again, 3.7 million followers on YouTube. When you're creating something on YouTube, and, and feel free to get a little practical here, so if anybody here, you know, wants to create a great video in the future or a great brand, what are some of those critical components that, that you think about, or some of the things that go into making an excellent video?

Sure. And, and I'll caveat this with, I'm, I'm great at thought leadership content, so I'm not the guy to call for your slime videos or, uh, prank videos or anything else. Uh, but thought leadership education is what I love doing the most. Um, a couple things. So usually we'll look at frequency, and frequency is minimum once a week. If you're not doing once a week, you're, you're not in the game. So start thinking about how can I go make videos at least once a week. Two is length, and 10-minute plus is typically what we're looking at. And no maximum. I was like, well, how long should I go? Well, as long as you can. People are going to YouTube to learn. Uh, and so how did Joe Rogan blow up and how did, how did Lex Friedman blow up and how did all these people blow up? It's 3-hour interviews, right? It's like the longer you can go, as long as it's still valuable, don't go long just for the sake of going long, but length. People are now going to YouTube to learn. If I wanted to learn, uh, a lot of the stuff you talk about in Growth Lab, where am I going? You know, I'm, I'm probably not going to the library anymore. I'm probably not asking my mom. I'm going to YouTube. And if you can hook me in and get me interested, I, I will watch a 3-hour video. So, uh, how often are you doing it? At least once a week. How long is a video? 10-minute plus. Um, 3, the first minute really matters. When people say I have a short attention span, that's true. It's like, oh, I won't watch a 3-hour long video. That's true in the first minute. So the first minute really, really, really, really, really matters. If you can hook people for the first minute, they'll watch the whole thing. And you just, if anybody has ever seen an audience retention curve, you've, you've probably known all about it for your own videos. But if you're new to YouTube, the audience retention curve shows you minute by minute, second by second, how people are falling off your video. And what you find is the first minute is where you lose everybody. So you get over a 3-hour long podcast and at 1 minute you've already lost 60% of the people on your video. And then it's a slow trickle down for the rest of the video. So what's the problem? The problem is that first minute. You need to fix the first minute. And so you need to have a powerful opinion. You need to have something exciting. You have to have a reason for people to watch you. Assume that they don't know who you are. We're not only making videos for your audience. So I've got an audience, you've got an audience. We want to make a video for people who've never heard of us. And so if you're doing a show like this, for example, we need to have coming ups either. Highlight moments from what this episode's about and put that at the beginning, or, or the host will then intro it in a way that it's not appealing to the, uh, you're not trying to just praise the guest, but in a way that the audience will make sure they wanna watch. So, you know, this episode, I forget how he started. He's like, hey, I've got a special guest on and this individual has yada, yada, yada. Great. That is not a great start, right? You need to take some coming ups and put them, and you know this, But a lot of people don't know this because when you're making an interview, the beginning kind of sucks because you're building rapport. You know, you don't know where it's going to go, but hopefully in an hour-long show, there's going to be a lot that you talk about. And so highlight moments and bring it to the beginning. So obsess over the first minute. That's where people have a short attention span. And if you can hold them for the first minute, then they'll watch the rest of it. Um, and then the last one is click-through rate. So you could have the best videos, but if the thumbnail and title suck, then nobody's going to end up watching the video. YouTube will stop recommending it. And so there's a lot of work that goes into figuring out what the best title and thumbnail are and how to optimize for them. And the good news is you can always change it. You know, the best part about YouTube is that your content lives forever. So I'm sure you have videos that are like 5+ years old still getting you lots of views right now on the channel, which unlike Instagram and Facebook and TikTok, those are much more of the moment platforms where nobody cares what you posted 2 weeks ago on Instagram, let alone 5 years ago. But YouTube, if you're making content that is evergreen— so a lot of the stuff you're talking about is evergreen content, mindset will still be valuable in 5 years, uh, that is a great strategy to use. So, um, how often are you doing it? At least once a week. How long are the videos? At least 10 minutes, but the biggest growth we're seeing is the 1 to 3 hour. What's happening in the first minute? And the benchmark, like, of excellence is 70% at 1 minute, which is incredibly hard to do, to keep 70% of people at 1 minute. And then the last one is optimizing your click-through rate and constantly testing your thumbnails and titles. We've done over 20,000 split tests at this point on our titles and thumbnails, and it's the pursuit of perfection. Like, we still have— we still have a perfect thumbnail, but that's what excellence looks like, is the constant testing.

That's so good. And obviously there are tools and things you can do to, to, to do that. But also, I think if you're getting started, and, and Evan, I think you'd agree with this, It's like, see what other experts are doing, right? Watch Evan, watch Ed Mylett or Andrew Huberman or, you know, or someone else who's an expert and say, hey, what are their thumbnails? How are they getting an intro? What's their audience hook? What's the question they're asking? And I think that's the fastest way to success, right? In a way, you have followed all these people. You've been able to, you know, create profiles on some of the most successful people, giving— highlighting their greatest pieces of advice of all time. And I think in the forum, a lot of these things are modeling, right? Well, how do you become successful? Well, model somebody who's done it. Learn from them, right? Like, I'm thinking about, you know, Socrates was the mentor of Plato, and Plato was the mentor of Aristotle, and Aristotle of Alexander the Great. And we see that with most people that have been successful, as they've even either had an in-person mentor or a virtual mentor, which, Evan, I think you and I are probably in this boat to where we've watched so many videos of people, and it's almost like we've had some of these virtual mentors, whether it be for me, someone like a John Maxwell or a Jordan Peterson or someone like that, and probably similar thing for you with some other, uh, other successful individuals. How much do you think modeling plays into success, and is that something that you've, you've done as well?

Yeah, my channel initially was called Modeling the Masters.

Oh wow.

And if you go youtube.com/modelingthemasters or Model the Masters, I forget which one, it still, it still goes to Evan Carmichael. So that was my initial handle. Uh, so I'm a big believer.

It's like, I literally didn't know that. That's amazing.

That's a super inside baseball that, uh, not very many people would know. You'd have to be OG subscriber, uh, to know that. But I'm, uh, 100%, like, that's what saved my business. My first business was modeling Bill Gates and seeing how he built Microsoft. And so how, how can I use that to apply to my company? And modeling won't get you all the way there. It gets you like 85% of the way, right? It's like trying on a hoodie and it doesn't quite fit. And so you gotta, you gotta make a couple adjustments. So, If you want to be a great podcast host, so that's like somebody's watching, that's their next great ambition. Okay, cool. Listen to the podcast that you love. You— Josh has his questions and Rogan has his questions and Ferriss has his questions and whoever else that you love listening to, they have their questions. You can't just ask the same questions that Dr. Axe is asking and Joe Rogan's asking, right? You have to add your spice and your flavor to it, but it gets you 85% of the way there instead of of trying to feel like you have to figure this all out on your own. Back to the beginning of this interview where, you know, you said what made the difference between your first 5 years, you went from 0 to 2,000 subscribers, and then the next 5 years with 2,000 over a million. It was mentorship. It was modeling success. It was getting help. It was not trying to do everything all on my own. So at the beginning, copy. At the beginning, yes, copy Dr. Axe and copy me and copy whoever else and copy thumbnails and titles and intros. That's not all you want to end up doing because then you're just an Elvis impersonator and you're never going to be Elvis, right? So, but that gets you to the path, right? That gets you way faster on the path to then, okay, I saw how he did it. Now I'm going to experiment and branch off and do my own thing. So I think modeling success is the fastest way to grow, gets you 85% of the way there. And then you got to figure out that extra little secret sauce to add in for yourself.

That's so good. You know, I know you've been able to again do so many of these high-profile features. What is— you know, and, and so this is kind of a question you can answer in one of two ways. One, what is the best piece of advice you've ever picked up from somebody on one of these videos? Or maybe you, you were having a mentor or coach or someone, you, somebody well-known you were, uh, you were speaking with. But what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received?

Well, okay, best piece of advice I ever received was from my parents, who— my mom telling me, 'I'm having a good feeling, Karma. I could do anything that I believe that I can.' I didn't get that from a video, but I got that from hanging out with, you know, my mom. Yeah, um, from, from videos, sometimes it's direct and sometimes it's indirect, and you have to read between the lines. And this is where I think it's also great just to watch how people carry themselves. So I remember, we did, uh, we did a profile on Elon Musk and he went on some big news network, CNBC or CNN or whatever. And he was saying that AI will eventually kill us all. Like the robots will, will take over. And this is way before the hype now of all the AI. And then they asked a follow-up question like, well, that's pretty scary, Elon. Like how, how is it gonna happen? And he said, I don't know. And then they asked a couple more questions and he just kept saying, I don't know. I don't know. And for me, reading between the lines was, man, I don't know that I would have the courage to go on a major, you know, TV network, make some bold claim, and then every follow-up question say, I don't know. Like, I feel like if I was asked a question, like if you asked me a question, I would try to find a way to answer it instead of just saying, I don't know.

Yeah.

And so my lesson for that is I hope I have the courage to, when somebody asks me a question that I don't have an answer to, that I, I actually just say, I don't know. So it's like, it's in watching as well and being in, in somebody's, you know, energy and environment, seeing how they carry themselves, that I think you can learn a lot from as well, in addition to the actual words that they're saying.

Yeah, that's good. That's really good. You know, of all the wisdom that you've shared personally over the years, what's one piece of advice that you've given to yourself or others that you kind of keep coming back to over and over again?

So I'm a believer that everybody has a single most important core value. Like if you had to pick, what's your most important core value? I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot.

Oh, wow. I mean, I, look, can I give you a hierarchy of a few? I mean, I, I, I, yeah. So I mean, I, I would say for myself, I do think, I mean, I think it's love. I think it's the golden rule. I think it's looking at somebody and my, my core value is I want to add value to you. I want to do what's best for you so you can flourish long-term. So. I think for mine, it's, it's, it's— maybe that's cliché— it's love. And then after that, I think wisdom is another big one, because I think a lot of people are operating without wisdom. And for me, my definition of wisdom is very— wisdom is very rooted in the Bible. It's very much what does God say about a matter, and then trying to interpret that for sort of, uh, you know, use that in context for every decision I make. Um, those are probably my top two. And I think other things like humility is incredibly important, and others, but I would say love is is number one, wisdom number two.

That's great. Okay. So for me, I'd say believe, right? So I, I want to spread more believe in the world and whatever our message is to the world is, is still what we need the most ourselves. And the next level of our breakthrough is on the other side of even more of that thing. So my next level breakthrough is on the other side of even more belief. If 95-year-old Evan was going to come and talk to me right now, he'd say, dude, believe in yourself more. Your next breakthrough is on the side of even more love. And people might say, Josh, dude, like, you're already the most loving person that I know. Like, how can there be even more love? But, but that's the pursuit of excellence, right? Like, there's— there— this isn't even the start of how much love you could potentially share, both, both internally, like self-love, plus love out. How do you bring more love to your audience? To the guests who come on, to the team who show up, to the people who buy your products and services, as well as to self. And so, um, that's a frame of reference that I use for myself at least, to say, okay, like, then if I believed in myself more, what would I do? What would the next thing be? Because 95-year-old Evan is, is pissed that I'm not off doing the bigger thing, and it took me so long to get here. Just like now, looking back, it's like, how come it took me 5 years to get some videos going up to get past 2,000 subscribers. Not in a negative way, like, you suck, looking backwards, but let's use that as fuel going forward to make the bigger play, to, to leap faster into self-belief, in my case, to allow me to go and do more. Because another one of the things my mom used to say is, if you have the ability, you have the responsibility. If you can, then you must. And so, uh, I believe that If you're someone who's filled with love, you have the responsibility to go off and share. Like, it's not enough to hold that for yourself. You have to go off and do more with it. Like, you can't settle for where you're at right now. My belief, right? Um, and I think that's what Achievers kind of hold themselves to, that it's great everything we've done, and I'm capable of more. And more not just for me, but more to serve and to help and to inspire and to spread more positivity around the world.

That's so good, Evan. You know, one of the things you've constantly came back to over this, this entire interview, from actually one of the first questions to, to at least a couple others, is, uh, you know, bringing up how your mom has positively impacted your life, right? I mean, maybe your mom— maybe we need to get her a show, you know, and a channel too. Or maybe you need to, you know— and I don't know if you've done this already— maybe you need to have her, you know, uh, build a profile on her, interview her. But anyway, sounds like an incredibly wise woman um, in your life. And that's just so important, right, that we got these people around us that are pouring into us, and, and so we can pour that wisdom, that love, those beliefs out on other people. I love that. Well, I want to mention for everybody here, Evan has a book. His latest book is called Built to Serve. And I think this book and the concept is so important because you were made for something, right? And, and I think we all ask this question of, what was I built for? What was I made for? And Evan gets this into this book is Built to Serve. And so I encourage everybody, go to amazon.com and check out his book Built to Serve. Also, Evan, where are some other places people can find you? And one other question I'd have for you is, what are a couple videos you have on your YouTube channel that you think would be a great place for people to start, uh, to, to start to learn about more of your teachings and how to become successful?

Wow, okay. So I mean, people want to find me, I'm Evan Carmichael most places. Pretty easy to pretty easy to find. There's one other Evan Carmichael out there who's a pastor in Hawaii, so we battle every now and then for who gets the next Evan Carmichael handle for whatever platform comes out. But at some point I'll do a collab with him. And we both spread belief. His is through, you know, the word of God, and mine is through my channel. But so anyway, but you can find me on most platforms. In terms of video to start, there's so many. Maybe start with the Kanye one. We can give that to you if you want to put it up in the show notes. Because we talked about that as the first video for, um, for the top 10 that kind of started things off. And I can also share the very first video on the channel. Um, my very first video, you know, talk about being a perfectionist. I opened my channel in November of 2008, and I didn't post a video, I think, until April 2009.

Oh, wow.

I, I sat on my channel too. Like, I'm not perfect. I struggled. I was trying to be perfect. And my first video looks pretty good. Now it's dated since it's 2009, but I didn't start until I had my friend who was a professional videographer come in and film me. And I'm sitting there in my suit and trying to memorize my script, and he edited it so it looked really nice and clean, and it was pretty good for 2009 quality. But it took me how many months, you know, from November to April before I even launched the first video. And then I started making it more just, okay, I'm just gonna do on my own and just go and expect to suck at the beginning. Um, so yeah, maybe the first video and the Kanye one are probably good places to start.

That's great. And, and another idea here for everybody, we'll put this in the show notes also, you know, if there's somebody that you really admire that's successful as an entrepreneur in business, you might also just search something like Evan Carmichael Elon Musk or Evan Carmichael Steve Jobs. Like, you know, those were a couple I watched, I got incredible value from. And so you could always Search someone successful. Tony Robbins is another example. Search Evan's name and see what he has done on them because it's incredibly concise, incredibly valuable. Evan, one of the things Evan does is he combs through the internet looking at sometimes, I mean, just hours and hours of video to find those most powerful clips of someone like Elon and then puts them all into one single video. So again, it's just absolutely incredible. It's been a great value to my life and I hope it adds value to your life as well. Well, Again, Evan, hey, thanks so much for coming on. I want to let you know, I really appreciate you, you know, sharing, you just sharing so much of your, your wisdom with us today.

Thank you, man. And maybe as a final thought, it, it feels like it's harder to win by being positive right now. You know, it feels like if you're spreading hope and positivity and optimism and belief and courage and love, that it's harder to win right now where there's so much negativity in the system and it seems to be what everything is leading with. And so I, at least I feel that way. I don't know if you do. Uh, yeah. But it means to me that this show is needed even more, you know, like to be the light in the darkness that people need the Growth Lab. And I mean, honored to be in the first, you know, 30 episodes. Um, I'm just super, super proud of what you're doing. And, um, just my, I know you're gonna keep going and I'm, I'm just just, uh, you're doing good work and it's needed right now. Um, and so if anybody watching, you, uh, enjoyed this session, let Josh know, put it in the comments, and let's all go be warriors of the light because people need it right now.

I love it. Well, thanks so much, Evan. And hey, thanks everybody for watching. I want to encourage you, if you're not subscribed here to the channel, hey, please subscribe. And we'd love to hear comments from you as well. Hey, if— share with me, what is the biggest takeaway that you had from this video that Evan shared? Hey, please share that in the comment section. And I'll again, also again, thanks everybody who's been on mission with me sharing the truth of how to grow yourself and so much more. Again, thanks to Evan Carmichael for all his wisdom. I'll be back in, in another day or two with another video. Thanks so much for watching. Hey, so if you've liked this video with Evan Carmichael, you're gonna love the video I did with Rob Dial on mindset and finding your purpose. Hey, if you want to check out that video, hey, click right here. I'll see you over there.

And he says, yeah, so if the business succeeds, it's the CEO's fault.

If the business fails, it's the CEO's fault, right? And I said, yeah.

And he said, okay, do you want to know what your problem is? And I go, sure.

And he goes, you're not acting like the CEO of your life.