She CURED Her Auto-Immune Disease Eating This One Thing | Mikhaila Peterson

I've been trying to figure out what's causing the probably extreme gut permeability leading to food sensitivities, leading to autoimmunity and psychiatric disorders. I've been only eating beef since December 2017. Wow.

Yeah, almost 8 years you've only eaten beef.

Yeah.

Wow.

But I've popularized the Lion Diet because there seems to be thousands, tens of thousands of people with autoimmunity or psychiatric disorders that will go into remission only eating meat, which is nuts. Arthritis is a big one. I've seen multiple sclerosis respond. I've Most autoimmune disorders respond. Some people are just looking to lose weight. Yeah. And psychiatric issues are a big one. If I can help some, like one person, avoid the hell that I've experienced with autoimmunity, my suffering will be worth it. At 7, I was diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis. My dad sat me down and had a serious conversation, said, this is gonna be really hard for you. Definitely the best piece of advice my dad has given me was—

everyone, I'm Dr. Josh Axe. Welcome to the show. Remember, each and every week we dive deep into the science and principles behind how grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Today I'm in the home of Mikhaila Peterson. I'm gonna be interviewing Mikhaila today, and we're gonna be diving into all things autoimmune disease, inflammation, chronic infections, and how to heal your body. Also, we'll talk about pregnancy because Mikhaila is pregnant and talk about how to heal your body and talk about a carnivore and the lion diet today. Mikhaila, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me on. This is a pleasure.

Well, thanks for hosting.

Your house. Thank you for coming. I know it's much easier with pregnancy exhaustion.

Well, yeah, I'm so excited to be here. I know we've been trying to do this, this interview for a while now, and I know I followed you for years and your dad for years and so excited to dive in today. And you have such an amazing story. I mean, you've been one of the— you've been really the pioneer and the founder of the Lion Diet. It's a carnivore diet that focuses really on red meat. And I'd love to dive into what you've noticed in your own body as you've gone through this diet. Talk a little bit about some of the things that you've battled and some of the things that your family's battled and some of the things that you guys have discovered have helped. But I'd love for you to start off just sharing with everybody, like, what you've been through, you know, like, like when this started, what you've dealt with and some of the results you've, you've seen along the way.

Great. Okay. Well, I was a C-section baby and I was pretty sick as a baby, like 6 months old. I was put on antibiotics, developed thrush, just things weren't great at the beginning. When I was 2, I kind of was delayed walking, uh, and I started kind of walking like a duck. That's what my mom called it anyway, like duck walking. And at 7, I was diagnosed with idiopathic juvenile idiopathic arthritis, um, and that really took 5 years to diagnose because at that time it was rare, rarer in kids than it is now. It's much more common now, unfortunately. So I was diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis when I was 7. I was put on immunosuppressants when I was 8. When I was 12, uh, I was put on antidepressants because I was having suicidal thoughts and OCD, and I was really unstable. So I was put on SSRIs. And then when I was 14, I started getting chronic fatigue, which which was eventually medicated with Adderall. It was in my later teenage years. When I was 17, I had my hip and ankle replaced from the juvenile idiopathic arthritis. And that was while I was on immune suppressants. I was taking Enbrel and methotrexate for arthritis. I had been for years. But basically over the span of a year, I had this one MRI of my hip. They're like, "Oh, you know, the cartilage isn't in great shape." And 3 months later I had another MRI and it was like, there's no cartilage, there's bone on bone. We're not sure what's going on. It was crazy. My rheumatologist at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto said it was the worst arthritis she'd seen throughout her career, and she'd been a rheumatologist for 28 years for kids. And then after they realized I needed a hip replacement, it was like as soon as I was healing from the hip replacement, 6 weeks after that I was like, my ankle's just killing me. They did an MRI of my ankle. There's like, there's no cartilage. It's bone on bone in your ankle. I was like, what's going on? So then I had my ankle replaced after that. I was on OxyContin for a year to deal with the pain because Canadian medical system's not great. Surgery was very delayed. It was very painful. So I was medicated throughout that. And then basically I went to university. I got sicker. My diet got worse. You know, I went to university and was like, now's my time to survive off of Cinnamon Toast Crunch and pizza and beer. Great. That nearly killed me. I ended up dropping out of university because I was too sick to make it to my final exam. So I was like, I have to go home. My parents had said you probably shouldn't go to university far away, and I went to Quebec from Toronto because I didn't want to be around my parents. Uh, and I ended up moving back home because I was too sick. And when I was 22— it was about when I was 18 when I started Googling, and I was just Googling like, what, what do the medications I'm on do? What part of my body do they work on? How are they working? I was like, I have to like figure out what's going on, what's happening to my body. By the time I was 23, I figured out I should probably just rule diet out as a factor. I didn't have any, uh, food allergies. I had environmental allergies. I was allergic to everything environmentally, but I had no food allergies. But I thought, let's rule out diet. I went on a strict elimination diet. I had no idea about paleo. I didn't know about the autoimmune protocol. I'd never heard of keto. I just thought, what can people be allergic to? You know, eggs, grains, dairy. Those were like the big allergies. So I cut out a lot. I went to limited fruit, limited vegetables, no nightshades, meat and fish. And within 6 weeks, a lot of my symptoms started dying down. So I started to try— and this was— I stopped taking my immunosuppressants at that point because I wanted to monitor the arthritic reactions. I was mind blown. That diet had any impact and still pretty skeptical. So I reintroduced something that I considered healthy, which was sugar-free, like almond flour banana bread. And 2 days later I was in the grocery store and I couldn't walk. Wow. And I— it was like a worse arthritic flare than I used to see on the immune suppressants. And I was like, oh my gosh, I think my diet's giving me arthritis. So I spent a couple of days in bed. I got stricter with diet. And then just to speed things up, Over the next couple of years, I got stricter. I went off of my SSRIs, experienced severe SSRI withdrawal, which I didn't know what it was at the time. I didn't know it was called SSRI withdrawal till years after. Had to deal with that. But I ended up only eating meat after pregnancy and SSRI withdrawal to keep all my autoimmune symptoms, chronic fatigue, and severe depression under control. And I've been only eating beef since December 2017. Uh, wow.

Yeah, almost 8 years you've only eaten beef.

Yeah.

Wow, wow.

Yeah. And I started at thinking, I'll do this— I like— I know I don't react to beef, um, I'll do this for 6 weeks and reintroduce some foods and see what's bugging me and causing the autoimmune responses. And I started with olives, and they were like preservative-free, really high-quality olives, just olives. Had a huge immune response, uh, and it was scary enough that after that I was like, I'm just gonna wait. It took about 6 weeks for the arthritis to fully go away. So like no time at all. It took— sorry, it took about 2 weeks for the arthritis symptoms to go away. It happened really quickly. It took about 6 weeks for me to stop crying in the morning because I'd was very depressed. Wow. I was off of antidepressants, but I was still not stable. And then 5 months later, my lingering anxiety went away. And since then, it's been me spending the last 8 years trying to figure out why my body reacts to everything but beef. But I've popularized the Lion Diet because there seems to be thousands, tens of thousands of people with autoimmunity or psychiatric disorders that will go into remission only eating meat. Which is nuts. Uh, some of those people managed to bring food back and identify exactly what's causing it, but a lot of those really chronically ill people are stuck only eating meat, happy because they're in remission. But I've been trying to figure out what's causing the— probably extreme gut permeability leading to food sensitivities, leading to autoimmunity and psychiatric disorders. Uh, so it's been a wild ride.

Yeah, I mean, it is wild. And as you said, I mean, there are so many more people now we're seeing that have SIRS, and we had talked about this a little bit, this chronic inflammatory response syndrome. Yeah. And autoimmune disease. I mean, these continue to grow. Inflammatory bowel disease, more and more people having issues. And it's crazy because 20 years ago no one had ever heard of the carnivore diet, and today there are so many people doing carnivore, doing the Lion Diet. You know, I have a friend of mine, Peter Osborne, he is in Texas, he's a, he's a doctor, and he came down with mold toxicity, and he said the only diet that helped him in healing and overcoming some of his mold issues was, was going carnivore. And I was discussing this with him that I think for one of the big reasons why that works is, well, one, it's just, you know, I think we were— most people think that meat's hard to digest and it's actually the opposite. Meat is much easier to digest than raw nuts and raw vegetables and a lot of other things. But also it's, it's non or lesser fermentable. It doesn't really ferment. So really it's not going— it's going to affect the gut microbiota a lot less than anything else for the most part. And so I think a lot of people are having reactions because if you don't have the right microbes or too many of the wrong microbes and then you feed it something, those microbes that are bad in there that you don't want to be at higher levels, well, I mean, they can eat— well, the crazy thing is they can even consume polyphenols and olives. You know, most people would think, well, hey, olives should be fine or coconut should be fine. And those aren't fine either. But that's— it's, you know, I'm sorry you went through that because, I mean, I can imagine just thinking about like if you were, you know, well, one, a friend, but also someone who's a sibling or a parent, having a family member go through that. I mean, what do your— how did your parents— how did they— I mean, obviously it's harder for you still, probably to a degree. But also, I mean, what would your parents say about that?

I actually think it was probably harder. So the one year I got my hip and ankle replaced, was really hard because I was in enough pain that I couldn't sleep. And once you get to that amount of pain, your life's over. So that was hard. But I was diagnosed so early. I was diagnosed when I was 7, and all I thought was, "Ick, I have an old person disease." And so my brother would be at school telling people, he'd be like, "Don't tell anyone because it's something grandmas have." That was my understanding as a kid. You know, my parents' understanding was this disease leads to multiple joint replacements and an early death and possibly infertility. So I think it was really hard on my mom. Like, she used to come to my appointments and hold my stuffed animal and weep. And I'd be like, "It's okay. I'm okay." So it was harder on them. Once I got older and my prefrontal cortex grew in, I was like, "Oh, this is potentially killing me. Okay, I should look into this." But I wouldn't say it's lucky to be diagnosed young, but I don't think it takes the same mental toll as being diagnosed when you can fully understand the ramifications of your illness.

Yeah. Yeah. I think about— I remember my mom saying this to me growing up, and then as a parent, I really understand this now, is that I remember I was like, I was probably 7 or 8 years old and my mom— I was sick with the flu. I remember her saying to me something like, honey, like, if I could take this, like, you being sick right now, like, I would take it on myself right now. And, you know, as a parent, you feel that way. It's like, you know, my— our daughter just had the flu for a week a couple of weeks ago. And it was like I would take, you know, we would all take that. And so I can see it being incredibly hard on the parents. And there are so many parents trying to navigate this, you know, these sort of issues right now today. Terrible. It's crazy.

Yeah. I didn't even mention— I did that whole blurb, but mold. And I contacted you when I got really sick in Miami, so I put myself into remission. Couple years ago, I moved into a particularly moldy house. Not visible mold everywhere, but it turned out it was in the HVACs and behind the drywall, and I had a bunch of my autoimmune symptoms come back. Now, I was still functional, like I was still working and things, but it got to a point where I was like having trouble walking upstairs and things. I had no idea how much mold can impact you until that experience, even though I talked to people who dealt— like, my first podcast was with someone who was like, mold, it's everywhere, uh, your air is really important. I was like, wow, 'Oh, that's not my problem,' and got hit with mold and was like, 'Oh, that was definitely a contributing factor.' So had a diagnosis of SIRS after that. But it seems like there have been a number of factors at play. Mold was certainly one of them.

Yeah, yeah. There are so many different pathogens today, mold, Lyme, post-COVID virus, Epstein-Barr, CMV, C. diff, H. pylori. I mean, there are a lot of microorganisms that are Um, and I think, you know, going back, I think about what Hippocrates said over 2,000 years ago: all disease begins in the gut, in the gut microbiome. And it's like, well, I think we really start to understand and see why that is today. You know, as you have been out, you know, on podcasts and talked about your own story yourself, how many people have reached out to you saying, hey, I've tried this Lion Diet and it's, it's changed my life in some way?

Oh, if I had to quantify, well, I have— so on Instagram we have almost 200,000 people following the page. Uh, on Facebook we have 40,000 people in a group, and those are people who are focused not on carnivore, but they have severe autoimmunity and chronic disease and are doing just beef. There's 40,000 people there. And then reached out personally, I mean, I don't know because I can't get back to everybody who reaches out via DMs on Instagram, but it's like Thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And so part of the reason why I've been talking about it and pushing it is because it'd be really good to get some research done. I've partnered with a doctor actually, and we're planning on running a study this year. Great. Finally, we're going to look at keto, Lion Diet versus standard American diet for RA and IBD over a 6-month period. So I'll be talking about that more when we're looking for people who are interested in trying it. But I've partnered with that doctor because I was like, nobody else seems to be running the studies. It'd be nice if like some studies were run because at least the research in keto has skyrocketed.

Oh, yeah.

Thank goodness.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's a huge step in the right direction.

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I bet it's hundreds of thousands. I mean, it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people. Um, yeah, it's crazy. I know one of the things that you've tried to do a few times— I just know this because I, I think you posted this on social, or maybe we talked about this once too— but tried to introduce some other foods over the years. And it's something I know that you, you have a heart to do. I know we've talked— Paul Saladino, you know, obviously he was pure carnivore before. Now I know he's doing some dairy and some fruit and honey. What, you know, I— well, and have you both— I'm asking this question for yourself, but also some of the other people you've talked to who have been carnivore, who have been Lion Diet I mean, how many people have been able to go on these diets, heal, and then start to add some of these other foods back in?

It's really hard to say. I would say just gauging from the Lion Diet Facebook group, half, maybe more than half. There's definitely a subset of people that are like, I can't eat anything else. My symptoms come back. I'm happy because I'm in remission, but I'm stuck here.

Yeah.

But then there are at least half the people who try it— and we're already just attracting the people with chronic disease anyway— but at least half the people that are like, hey, I'm, I'm doing carnivore now, or I can do keto, or I can do paleo, or some people that are like, it was just one or two things that were really bothering me. So I'd say half, probably.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. So like, it seems to heal the gut. The GAPS diet was good for this. It seems to heal certain gut permeability issues depending on what's causing your gut permeability. Yeah, but if it's like mold and you're still being exposed to mold, you're going to have to address that or your gut permeability isn't going to heal. Yeah. If it's dysbiosis, you might have to address that in a different way depending on the type of dysbiosis, but at least it gives you some leeway in remission to start delving into root causes with a clearer mind.

Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that, that I've talked about just a handful of times is that different macronutrients stress different organ systems. So you've got fat, which is more stressful on your liver and gallbladder and lymphatic system, because those are the organ systems that have to deal with fat and the breakdown of it. You've got your pancreas, which has to deal with carbohydrates. And then meat is really— it's stomach, it's a little small intestine, some kidney. I mean, so there's, there's multiple more organs really involved with meat, but I also think it's easier on those organs. This is why I think keto works so well for certain conditions is that your pancreas and part of your digestive system gets a 100% rest and relief. And of course, metabolically, it's very different than carbohydrates as well. But I think about that with the Lion Diet, in that you are essentially getting to give your pancreas a really vital organ for producing enzymes, which is also responsible for cleaning up senescent cells, which are a big part of, I believe, these chronic inflammatory reactions that people have when these senescent cells build up in someone's body. So anyways, I'm just trying to think about some of the mechanisms of why the Lion Diet and Carnivore Diet are so healing and so impactful for people.

My theory, just a theory. So we'll see. We need some research. But I think, I think it has to do with food particles leaking into your body through a leaky gut, provoking immune response. Yeah. So I know when I did bloodwork a long time ago, we were looking at IgG responses. And my IgG responses to almost all food were, were in the red. Yeah, it was like everything's leaking into your body. And so I think even if you don't address the gut permeability problems because of dysbiosis or whatever's causing them, if you just stop eating those things and they stop leaking into your bloodstream, then you don't have the inflammatory reactions anymore.

Yeah.

And beef just isn't prone to causing that. Yeah. There's probably more to it than that, but—

No, well, I know, I think, I think that's really insightful and true. Yeah, I think that's definitely true. When you have— again, in operating these pages you have, which by the way, if you're, if you're watching or listening and you want to get support, let's say you're one of those people dealing with chronic inflammation, inflammatory bowel disease, autoimmune disease, some of the things Mikhail has talked about, you can follow her page, you can follow the Lion Diet page on Instagram and Facebook, are great places to go as well to get support and find people that are going through what you're going through. And so that's a great place. As you've been part of these groups, what are probably the most common conditions that you've seen the Lion Diet help people with?

Arthritis is a big one, and I think people gravitate because of my experience with arthritis. So arthritis seems to respond really well. Uh, I've seen multiple sclerosis respond. I've seen most autoimmune disorders respond. But I would say most people come, some people are just, I mean, not that being overweight isn't a problem, but some people are just looking to lose weight. Yeah. And psychiatric issues are a big one, especially people who have been medicated with multiple medications are trying to get off of them. And some of those people could probably do a ketogenic diet in general to do that, but the Lion Diet seems to make it a lot easier. So I'm mostly seeing, I'm mostly seeing autoimmune disorders like arthritis and psychiatric illnesses.

You know, there are some ancient diets and they would call them— there's a dietary therapy that was used in, in the ancient East, and it was, it was monotherapy or a mono diet. Oh yeah, where you only eat one different food at a time. So it might not just be red meat, but it would just be you only eat steak then you only eat an avocado, then you, you know, and in Chinese medicine, that's really believed to just make it more simple on your body. Your body only has to create the very exact enzymes for that food. This is also why in Chinese medicine, they would, if somebody was sick, they always did a recipe called one pot where they put food, they basically made soup, but they'd cook it for like 24 hours. And they believed over time, when your body finally consumed that, it recognized it as one food. 'Cause there's a lot of theories that, again, eating only one food at a time is, again, just much easier on your organ systems, much easier on your digestive system. And obviously, this is the ultimate, you know, mono diet in terms of just eating one thing. Now, have you also tried some different types of red meat? You mentioned beef, bison, lamb. I have.

I've tried. So getting back to the reintroductions, I do bison, lamb, veal, if you want to differentiate that from beef, any type of ruminant meat, I have the same reaction to. Now, when I was living in mold, I found out what histamine intolerance is, and I stopped eating beef. So I only ate lamb for about 2 years. And then once I got over the mold exposure, which I think thankfully got under control somewhat rapidly when I've looked at other people's experiences, I like, I moved out, did some SIRS treatment, I took a binder. Overall, it actually didn't take too long to start feeling like me again. My histamine intolerance went down and I went back to beef. So any ruminant meat seems to not be a problem. Beef is a little bit higher in histamine if you have a histamine problem. I can eat a little bit of honey. It's not like— it doesn't do anything positive for me, but it's not a disaster.

Yeah.

So I can eat a bit of honey. But that's it. That's really what I can eat. During pregnancy, this, the Lion Diet is hard. It's hard in general. I don't think anybody would be on it unless they had a chronic disease that it put into remission and it was, people are like, that's worse than being on this diet. Yeah. During pregnancy though, it's hard. I can tell my body's like, would rather be eating more things. I tried chicken. Chicken's not a disaster. I don't get arthritis or anything. I end up sleeping for like 12 or 13 hours. It's like taking Benadryl. So I stopped eating chicken because I was like, I can't sleep for 12 or 13 hours a day. This is ridiculous. No idea what's causing that. Um, but chicken— and this is like bougie chicken. This is soy-free chicken, corn-free chicken. Like, this chicken has had a good life, and, uh, it makes me really tired. So that's basically my reaction to chicken. So it's not something dramatic. I can do a little bit of wild fish, but I kind of get sleepy. So those are kind of the reintroductions I've done. More recently, after I've done some gut protocol work, which I'm not going to talk about yet because I'm not done and I want it to work and then I can be like, "It worked." Yeah. But I've done some trying to address dysbiosis in the gut. And I think I'm less sensitive to foods. So my daughter's on a paleo diet. We made these cookies and they're like cassava root. There's like no ingredients. I don't know, they have like 4 ingredients in them. Coconut oil, like maple syrup, like there's not— I don't even know how they turn into a cookie form.

Yeah.

And I was like, I'll just have like a little bit of a cookie, which I would not have done 8 years ago when I was really sick because I used to have these massive immune responses. But I can have a little bit of that and I'll be like, I think I'm okay. Yeah, I'm not too uncomfortable or anything. I think I'm okay. So I, uh, I'm definitely less sensitive than I was I think I'm on the right path. I don't think I'll be on this diet forever.

Yeah, yeah. You know, when I, when I've worked with, with patients with, you know, these major inflammatory conditions, sometimes I remember when I first got started in practice, one of the things via really the GAPS diet, that's what I would introduce and do most my patients on. Like, we would start them on like literally a fourth a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar or sauerkraut juice before we would introduce anything that would radically, you know, um, could cause a histamine reaction or, uh, or, or some sort of inflammatory, you know, gut response. And so, yeah, I mean, sometimes it's just slow but sure and giving your body a lot of time to just adapt. And sometimes it just takes, takes a long time. But I'm glad you're— I mean, compared to where you were 10 years ago, uh, completely different person. Yeah.

And it turned out a whole bunch of the symptoms I was experiencing, not all of them, were caused by the medications I was taking. Which was pretty heartbreaking to find out. So the, like, a lot of the more neurological symptoms were side effects of the SSRI that I'd been on since I was in grade 6, so 12. So I didn't know, like, I grew up with these side effects thinking they were part of the autoimmune disorder, and then I stopped taking the drug and was like, my restless legs are gone. Restless legs are really unpleasant. Oh yeah, I like, terrible. Like, I can remember weeping about it in bed because like terrible restless legs. There were a number of other symptoms that were caused by the SSRI. I think part of the chronic fatigue was a side effect as well.

It's hard to say. Most people don't realize, and I think this is a— I think this is a big mistake that— one of the things a lot of people don't realize about medications is most people think that all of the side effects are on the label. They're not. Like, one of the, the biggest thing that medications do outside of those side effects that you'll see is they cause nutritional deficiencies. Yeah. So SSRIs specifically cause a magnesium deficiency. It's one of the biggest things that depletes the body, and that is one of the biggest causes of restless leg syndrome.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's extremely unpleasant. Yeah, that, that went away. Did that stop when I went on the paleo diet? It definitely went away after I stopped stop taking the SSRI even with, uh, SSRI withdrawal. That was an unpleasant side effect.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

What are some of— and I know you don't want to dive into your whole, uh, gut transformation treatment you're going through now— have there been any other therapies or lifestyle practices or anything that you've done over the years that you felt like have been integral to your healing?

So I started with I'd kind of just— once I realized I could survive off of only eating meat, I was like, what else can I do? Do I even have to eat every day? Like, I didn't know anything. I didn't believe anything anymore because it was so— I mean, who knew that? I was like, there's no way I can survive like this. So I started— I did some extended fasts early on just to see, because I'd heard, is that going to heal your gut? It did not heal my gut. They were interesting experiences. It didn't solve it. It was an interesting experience. But so I did fasting. I've done cold plunging. Saunas were really helpful. Like during SSRI withdrawal, if I had— if I really went into a slump and was feeling bad, saunas, half an hour sauna and really sweating, was the only thing that really helped. So some sort of detox. That's what it felt like. It'd be like when the withdrawal got really bad, it'd be like, okay, I'm full of something awful. I get in a sauna and I'd have relief. And sometimes it was like 2 hours of relief. It wasn't a lot of relief, but saunas were really helpful. Uh, and then figuring out that my air quality mattered was huge. So realizing that most houses have some level of mold, that air quality really matters, especially to sensitive people. That's probably been the biggest thing that's helped me. That was definitely a factor and probably contributed to my autoimmunity as a kid because we had black mold in the basement that I grew up in. So that's not good. Um, mold. Anything else that was really beneficial? I've done like red lights. I didn't really see a lot of benefit in that. I think this protocol I'm doing now, which actually involves antibiotics, like identifying dysbiosis in the gut and any parasites and treating them pharmaceutically. I think that probably has the most legs out of everything I've done, which is— I would never— I was too scared to try. Yeah, 10 years ago when I was like, was it antibiotics that caused the gut permeability in the first place? Maybe I'm just gonna avoid them. So yeah, hopefully that clears some things up.

Well, I'm praying for you. I'm rooting for you. I know. I mean, it's been quite a, you know, quite a road. And as we— as I mentioned before, it's like, I mean, to, to go through something that long, to have surgery, have a full ankle replacement when you were a kid, full hip replacement, to be on all of those drugs for all those years and battle depression, I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a lot. I mean, how do you feel at this point since you've been through those things? How do you feel like that's shaped you as a person?

So I mean, there have been a lot of upsides. I would say the downside is I don't know what SSRIs did to my brain because I was on them from 12 to 23, so during a very formative age. And looking back, I know I had probably less fear in situations that should have brought fear than I should have. And I think that was unnaturally suppressed. I think so. Those kind of things make me concerned. I just read a study about how long-term SSRI use maybe leads to dementia or can increase your likelihood of developing dementia. That was just published and I was like, "Yeah, I kind of get that." So that's hard to reverse, can't reverse a hip and ankle replacement, which is very frustrating. All these other health things you can reverse and you're still stuck with this hip and ankle. But for resilience, I honestly feel like there, for some reason that I don't know, I probably needed to go through these experiences for some reason. That's what it felt like when I got over it. I started the website Don't Eat That in 2017 because I kept having these food reactions when I was in antidepressant withdrawal. And I was like, if there's anyone else going through this, They need to know that they're not alone. If I can help some, like one person avoid the hell that I've experienced with autoimmunity, my suffering will be worth it. And I was getting— my friends were all weirded out about what I was doing. I was like, "I can't eat that. I'm not eating that." They're like, "Okay, Mikhaila, it's a little neurotic here." But I was having inflammatory reactions. I was like, "I'll just— just in case there are other people out there suffering." It turns out there are a lot of people out there suffering. So I think going through all this has led me to, well, things that I would probably normally find difficult are not difficult at all. Yeah. If I have to have a hard conversation with someone that would probably make me uncomfortable, I've been through so much discomfort that it's like, okay, let's put this in perspective. I've already been through that.

Yeah.

That almost broke me. This is a difficult conversation or this is a business decision. This is a joke compared to almost dying. Yeah. So it gives you a good baseline of nothing is more stressful than that, so you can handle more.

Yeah, it's so true. And this is why, you know, when you look at a lot of the stuff— I know you've talked about it some, your dad talks about it a lot— in terms of just the way that we're raising kids today to be soft, right? I mean, I think that this is why you want to intentionally make your kids do hard things. Um, you know, not make them get the flu, but make them do hard things because they're going to be more mentally resilient later on in life. And the other thing that I just keep thinking about as you're sharing is, is that, you know, God uses all things for good. Like, I think about, like, when my mom was battling cancer, I never would have said as a kid, oh, I'm glad that my mom went through cancer. But my mom will actually tell people today, I'm glad I went through it because she grew closer to my dad. She, you know, just cherishes life today. She's— she counsels other women who are going through breast cancer you're helping them make, you know, eat healthy. And so it's— and I'm sure there are things that you still wish that you would— again, like, like an ankle and hip replacement. But there probably are things today that you're, you know, you can be grateful for in terms of just at least the lessons learned.

Well, 100%. I didn't think— like, when you're in that, like, hell, it's hard to— like, what— how could I possibly be grateful for this?

Yeah.

But I mean, Christianity has given me a way healthier perspective on it. But even before I converted to Christianity, I was grateful for the experience. And that was because I've seen so many people— so many people have reached out that said, say, hey, I was on 8 medications, I was bedridden, and now I can spend time with my kids, and now I'm fine, you know. And that's like Okay. If you have thousands of people telling you that, you're like, well, what is one person's suffering compared to that?

Yeah.

You know, it was like, it's worth it. 100% worth it. I thought it was going to be worth it if I could help one person. Wow. And then the hip and ankle replacement are frustrating, but it's almost like probably the type of person I am, it's good to, if I wanted to twist this in a positive manner, it's probably good to have a reminder of where I came from. Because I can get to a spot where I'm feeling so good and I'm so on top of the world that it's really hard to remember what feeling bad feels like. And so to have something there to just be like, "Hey, remember this. You were at a very low point for most of your life," you know, is humbling, I guess.

Yeah.

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Yeah, it seems like from what I've heard, um, you know, I want to— I'd love to ask you about your faith. You know, it seems like from what I've heard you grew up in a house that there were Christian principles and a worldview taught, maybe not the same faith that you have or your mom has or your dad have today, but there were those principles. But what inspired your, you know, accepting Jesus, becoming a Christian?

So I definitely grew up with Christian principles, and it was more, you know, thank God for that, too. Like, seriously. But I learned about it more of the psychological perspective about why these principles were useful. And then there were things I still didn't really understand. My dad told me when I was young, like a little kid, "Don't lie. Lying's bad." And I didn't really— people might have to get older to understand that. I didn't really understand what the problem with lying was. Avoided hurting somebody's feelings, you know, in these situations. Like, I don't really get— Dad says it's bad, but I don't really get that. I don't— maybe I don't really believe that. Um, what brought me to Christianity? So a couple things did. My mom got diagnosed with cancer, right? Yeah, brutally. Uh, she was totally fine. She started having flank pain and then was diagnosed with kidney cancer and they're like, don't worry, it's a slow-growing kidney cancer. We're like, okay, that's scary, but slow is good. And then she had surgery and then she didn't get better and they figured out it wasn't a slow-growing kidney cancer. It was collecting duct carcinoma.

Oh, yeah.

And it was like, you have 8 months. No one survives this. The number of studies on that cancer, there were like 3 and they were all like, "Nothing works. Chemo doesn't work, surgery doesn't work, you're going to die." And that was a bad period of time. We're just like, "What is happening?" Mom was always the person that was like, "Eat healthier." She never said only eat meat or something, but it was like, we can't have— we didn't eat a lot of processed foods growing up and things. We ate pretty healthy, but we still ate I still like grains and these things that were really causing reactions. She was always exercising all the time. She could do a one-handed push-up. I was like, who, what, what, like, who does a one-handed push-up casually? Um, and then got diagnosed with this and she had a, she had surgery. The surgery seemed to go well again, and then there was a surgical botch and she ended up back in the hospital on a feeding tube, like really sick. And at that point, I had a hospital phobia because it was quite soon after I got off of all my medication, and I ended up with a hospital phobia. I went into a hospital one time, was like, I'm gonna have a panic attack. My dad was like, that's probably from everything you've been through, and now you're associating it with danger. So it was— that summer was bad. But anyway, um, she goes She was never a religious person. We didn't go to church or anything. And she goes, "God told me I'm going to be healed on my anniversary." This is in the hospital. This is 6 or 8 weeks before her anniversary. And I thought, "Mom's on morphine." That's what I thought. It's like, "Okay, well, if that's good for her, great. But like, Mom's on morphine." Wouldn't heal from the surgical mishap, had to be flown to the States. Got another surgery. That surgery was unsuccessful. For— it was something like 4 days later, the surgical mistake. So they— she was basically injured. It wasn't healing. They couldn't find it. It was a lymph duct nick, um, and they couldn't find the, the nick. And it— she stopped leaking lymph on mom and dad's anniversary. And the surgeons in America were like, "Miracle. We're not sure." Because their surgery intervention didn't work. And so after that, I was like, that was hard to explain. Wow. That was hard to explain. And then it wasn't just that. She changed. She changed to become much more patient and That was the biggest thing, but it was kind of like an aura that changed around her. Yeah. And she was just kind of like, "God's got it," you know, after that. And I was like, "I don't even know what that means," but she had a different aura. She was much more patient and it was different. Dad noticed, I noticed, my brother noticed. Like, it was noticeable. And so after that, I was like, "I don't know what Mom has, but I want it. She's doing something right." I was like, but you can't just— especially coming from— I was never an atheist, I was an agnostic though, but coming from that background, you can't just suddenly switch on something that's like, I believe in something you can't see, especially if you're more rationally minded, then the rationalism also screws with that. Like, if you can't see it, there's no hard evidence for it, it doesn't exist unless proven. You can't prove it, so then you're in a pickle. Um, so then I met my, my husband, and he comes from a Christian background. I didn't know anyone who'd come from a Christian background. He comes from like a Protestant Christian background. And he was like, how are you doing? This is when we first met. And I was like, not doing— I'm doing well, but like mentally I'm not doing that well. Like, my dad— this is when my dad was really sick. Like, my dad's really sick. I was going through a divorce, and I had been for a long time. There were like a number of things that were really screwed up.

I mean, think about it, in such a short period of time, you're dealing with your health issues, your mom almost dies, your dad actually almost dies. Yeah, he went through a divorce. All those at one time.

Yeah, it was a blast.

I mean, did you feel like looking back— and I want you to— I'd love for you to finish what you were sharing right there too, but do you— I mean, where you're at now, do you feel like maybe there was a spirit of, you know, a demonic force? Oh yeah, against your family.

I mean, now I do. It was just— now I do. It's That, or it was very, very, very coincidentally bad in every way possible. But looking back and having a, like, Christian perspective on it, yeah, probably. Yeah, I had people reach out during that being like, you're being demonically attacked. And I was like, that's not real. But during it, it was interesting. So when my dad— dad got really sick from SSRI withdrawal, and he went on benzodiazepines when my mom got cancer. To treat really his SSRI withdrawal. That is a bad idea. That screwed him up. He ended up developing akathisia from the benzodiazepines, which is a side effect that isn't that rare and causes suicide, basically. Horrible side effect. Nobody knew what was going on. It was just hell for a really long time. And people were like, you're— you guys are getting spiritually attacked. And during that time, I thought I probably believed in the demonic before I ended up believing in Jesus. I was like, I think the demonic's out there. There's evil out there. Like, I can feel it. But that was before I believed in Jesus or the good. Yeah. So yeah, I do think that played a role.

Wow. Wow. It's so crazy.

It was really crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. How's it been? You and Jordan have been married 3 years. How long have you and Jordan been married now?

We got married December 2021. How's that been? Amazing. Amazing. And Jordan was the first person— so husband Jordan, yes, he has the same name as my dad, which I never get stopped reminding about. Reminded about, and I deserve it. It's fine. But, um, he was, like I said, he was the first person— I didn't know a ton of Americans. I think it's more common in America than it is in Canada, but I didn't know a ton of Christians growing up. I didn't know any actually in Toronto. So he was the first person I met. He was like, yeah, I'm a Christian. I was like, whoa, that's weird. But he has this aura, which I now attribute to the Holy Spirit, but he has this aura around him. And then I think that's what I felt on my mom too. Um, and I was like, wow, that feels really safe. Like, that's good. Whatever that is can stick around. Yeah. Um, super stable guy, very competent, really open and extroverted, and like able to take on projects. He's actually managed to like help me build things instead of doing the opposite. So it's been fantastic. Like, if you can marry the right person, it's just life-changing.

I remember my mom told me this growing up. The two most important decisions you'll make in life is, you know, accepting Jesus. And number two is who you marry.

I completely agree. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been fantastic. And we have, you know, I have Scarlett. This from my first marriage. She's wonderful. She was like a total miracle. And we had George. Last year, and now I'm pregnant again. So things are going splendidly.

That's awesome. Well, I'm so happy for you. Thank you. So great. Well, I love, I love hearing about your health journey. I love hearing about your faith journey. You know, I know one of the other things that you have— you've got a lot going on. One, I was on, you know, I've been checking out Peterson Academy. Looks incredible. How has that— has that been in line with your expectations? A little below, a little above? Like, what has that been in terms of the launch and the the demand and how's that been going?

It's gone— it's exceeded, exceeded my wildest expectations for sure. The response has been overwhelmingly positive. The people who we have teaching are so smart and so capable. The platform looks amazing. The team we have hired is incredible. There are a lot of Christians actually on the production team that are doing the editing of the videos. Um, but that's gone as well as it could possibly have gone. Uh, I thought it was going to be easier when we started.

Yeah, we started about that.

Yeah, 3 and a half years ago, I was like, online, online university, that's, that's easy, just build an online university. And I hadn't broken it down to like the fine detail of like each trailer Oh man. Anyway, it was way more work than we envisioned, but it's going incredibly well. We're in talks with different jurisdictions about accrediting courses. Yeah. Which would be— we'll see if that happens, but that would be huge. We have 47,000 people on the platform.

Wow.

Yeah. And we launched really, what, 6, 7 months ago-ish?

Wow.

Something like that. So it's been incredible.

Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I was on there the other day just, uh, I'm gonna dive in. I'm gonna do a few courses on there. I saw, you know, I saw your dad has one on Nietzsche I wanted to watch. And then anyways, and so, and I, I actually, I, I, if I ever interview your dad, which I'd love to at some point, I have probably watched as much Jordan— you know what, I'm probably not number one, but I've watched a lot of Jordan Peterson videos. I went back and watched a lot of his lectures at Toronto. And so if anyone's, if anyone's considering, um, you know, I would encourage you to check out Peterson Academy. You guys have just, you know, the 10 out of 10 people. I mean, the people that are— the other thing I— one, one other thing that's just so impressive is you guys have the professors that are the best in the world that are also virtuous, good people.

Yeah.

You know, so they have a worldview that's very much in line with the Judeo-Christian worldview of wanting to redeem the world. Yeah. And so there are just some amazing, amazing instructors on there, and it's, it's modern, it's sophisticated. It's just, you know, the video The video production is so well done. Thank you. So well done.

Thank you.

Yeah. And then you have your podcast, and that seems to be going really well. You gotta have a lot of amazing people you've interviewed. What, what in the past few years, what's maybe the favorite, your favorite interview you've done?

Past few years, you know, when I was Right before I figured out mold was a problem, I did an interview with Judy Cho, who does— she's kind of a carnivore nutritionist and she works with SIRS. And that— I reached out to her because I thought maybe mold was a problem, so I already had a bit of an— but that was very helpful to me. Yeah, that was a good one. Um, and then I did one with Dave Asprey recently, which was fun. It was fun. He was spraying nicotine into his mouth the whole time. I didn't know what he was doing. It was like every 3 minutes, just spray. And then halfway through the episode, yeah, I asked him what he thought about nicotine. He's like this. I was like, oh, that's what you've been doing for the last hour, spraying nicotine in. That was like—

that was supposed to make you more sharp mentally. So I haven't done it. I rely more on I don't know. Diet. Diet.

But yeah.

I saw RFK do it the other day with gum.

So. Huberman's into it.

Yeah.

I don't know. Everybody's into it. Anyway, that was an entertaining one. I think Judy Cho was a helpful one. Those are probably two. I've been, to be honest, I've been pretty preoccupied with Peterson Academy. I probably spend 70 or 80% of my time doing that. But it's gone. But that's also slowed down a bit. It hasn't slowed down. We're still rolling out educational features, putting out more courses. Like, we're doing 4 courses a month, which is a lot— 4 new courses a month. Um, so that takes up the majority of my time. I do really enjoy podcasting though. It's really like— I feel like I'm blessed to be able to talk to experts around the world. I'm having you on, which is gonna be great. But excited about it. Podcasting's incredible.

That's so great.

Yeah.

So what, what is— I'm curious about— so you get to talk, as you mentioned, you got to talk to a lot of amazing people. Um, you have some pretty amazing parents. What's the best piece of advice your mom has ever given you?

I don't know if it was advice, but I mean, definitely the best thing she's done for me is encouraged me to have faith in God and Jesus. I mean, hands down. She was also the one that kind of got me on the food train. She was always bringing me to naturopaths as a teenager.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I thought that they were just selling her expensive supplements and taking advantage of a mother of a sick person. That was my perspective of what they were doing because nothing ever did anything. So that put me backwards a little bit because it was like, oh, turns out that was wrong, like badly. Um, so I would— but I would say probably, probably advice. I mean, I, I would use me seeing her experience with being saved, like, changed my outlook on life. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah, that's been the most beneficial thing that's happened to her, at least that I saw.

Well, it's kind of like the Saint Francis, uh, quote, or at least what's contributed to him. It's like, you know, preach the gospel, only use words when necessary. It's like just her actions and her changing herself had a big impact on you, you know. Her own faith had a big impact on, on you.

Yeah, huge. Yeah. And I'd like— I don't even think she did that on purpose, you know.

Yeah.

Like, she was changed, and I was like, that's my mom, but it's a better version of my mom, honestly.

I mean, you said something that really struck me, and I think this is the same thing that I think that I've seen in certain people in life. And I think that's what— this is what caused me to pursue my Christian faith even more, is looking at certain people and saying, I want that. I want what they have. I want that spirit of, of purpose and confidence and that joy that they have. And so that, you know, yeah, Holy—

like, Holy Spirit. It's got to be that. Yeah. And I met— so I met I saw what happened to my mom. It was like one person. I'd never seen that before. And then I met Jordan, but I hadn't met him, you know, before. But I was like, that guy has the same kind of thing. And then he introduced me to his family, and I was like, oh, you know, these people kind of have the same kind of thing. So the more Christians I met that were like real good people, it's like there's something there. Even if you don't believe it, it's like, these are good people. And you meet a lot of people that are pretty nasty. So, like, there's a big difference between a good person and not a good person.

Yeah. What's the best piece of advice or thing that your dad has ever, you know, impressed upon you?

Definitely the best piece of advice my dad has given me was, uh, don't use your illness as an excuse. And he told me that when I was in grade 2, when I was diagnosed with arthritis. But he said, this is going to be— and he really sat me down and had a serious conversation, said, this is going to be really hard for you. I wasn't even at the— I didn't even have capacity to understand this, but it had an impact. And it was that, you know, you can't use this as an excuse. You could, you know, it's going to be hard to get out of bed. It's going to be hard to do things. It's going to be hard to use a pencil. But you can't use it as an excuse or it'll ruin your life. And so who knows what kind of impact that had on me and encouraging me to try and figure out my problems. I was never— you see some people who have chronic illness, and chronic illness is terrible, but you see it. I met a lot of people in the hospital usually that were resentful and mean and angry.

Yeah.

And no wonder, because they were in pain and it wasn't fair, but it doesn't help you get better. It does— like, you have to be like, this is my problem and I need to fix it. You know, it has to be on you. It can't be on why doesn't that person have it, why doesn't that person have it, which is a— it's a tricky place to fall into. But I think my dad— that was the best piece of advice I got from my dad. Don't use your illness as an excuse.

Whoa. Yeah, that's good. I mean, that's— it's, it's very— I mean, some people could— I'm trying to think the best word to use. It's obviously very direct, you know, for, for someone that age. But, but I think about, you know, Chelsea and I at night, we always— we, uh, our 4-year-old, Arwen, we tell her, um, we go through the different Bible, Bible stories and events and go through those with her. And there are certain things where, you know, I'm like, okay, she doesn't totally understand what we're saying now, But there's still things I know that my grandfather or parents said to me when I was 4 and 5 and 6 years old, and they somehow repeat in your mind again when you're 8 and you're 10, and then you're 35 years old, you know. So it's— yeah, it's, you know, it's powerful. It's powerful. So you're a Protestant, your mom's a Catholic, you're both Christians. Your dad is— I know you get asked that all the time. Okay, can I tell you, I saw this interview. Did you see— watch the John Rich interview where, uh, I think the guy's name was John Rich. He was interviewing your dad. I know if you watched your dad interviews, you'd be watching your dad interviews all day.

I do watch some of them. I don't know if that's associated with a channel. I might recognize the channel with the name.

Yeah, yeah. So he was really pressing your dad on it, but I will, I will tell— it was, it was pretty funny. But now I, uh, yeah, you know, I mean, your, your dad has done so much for, I think, helping bridge the gap with academics and people that are rational for understanding God and who he is. And I also think your, your dad— I mean, I'm sure your mom going through what she went through, if it impacted you, obviously I know your dad has said it's impacted him too in a profound way.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think it was— it's tricky because growing up viewing Christianity rationally, um, was helpful morally. But prob— I don't know if it maybe— it probably delayed my— the belief I have now with like Protestantism. Uh, it might have delayed that, but I grew up with the moral lessons, so that was really helpful. So I'm not complaining about it, but it's hard coming from it. It's hard. Christianity is hard if you look at it through a rational, purely rational lens, because if someone had proven God, they would have done it. Like the whole purpose of— I didn't understand this till recently either, like a couple years ago anyway, is the Christians talk about having faith. If there was a rational explanation or evidence for God, you wouldn't need faith. It like deletes the entire religion.

Yeah.

So when we were like, well, what's the evidence? The point is to have faith.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah. And I didn't— I wish someone had said that. I didn't really know what that meant, but I was like, you can't rationalize it. Stop trying.

You know, you said something, I think this is really profound and interesting, is that I think for— there's— if I could put things in 3 buckets, you kind of have, or even 4, you've got, you know, the atheist, the agnostic, the religious person, and the person that's in relationship with, with God and Jesus there. And I think when you are in that place of you are religious, there is an element of it's helping you, it's helping you live a better life, it's giving you a sense of purpose, it's doing all that. It's just not the highest level, just not the real full thing, the relationship. You know, it's like, I think about it like this, it's like if I, if Chelsea and I did date nights and the thing I was all about the entire time was just the, the date night itself and not Chelsea, it's like, it just, it's, it's not it's not a living thing, you know, just going through the motions versus the relationship, connecting with Chelsea deeply, having that dinner, talking about our lives, like the deeper things. That's— it's true connection. And so I think that there's an element of when people are religious, it's better than being— having nothing, but it's still not the full real thing.

Yeah, I probably went through those steps too. I was never an atheist because I was like, I don't know. Yeah, you can't prove he doesn't exist either. So there's no point being an atheist. I was in the agnostic camp for a long time. And then when I met Jordan, I moved over to— and through my experience with my mom, and because I knew there was something to it, I just didn't believe. Like, I just didn't have it, you know? Um, I was probably in the religious camp for a little bit, which was reading my Bible and trying. I was trying, but I hadn't— I didn't I didn't get it until about— it was about a year ago now. I was like, oh, I think I had some like ego that needed to die. There was still some pride in trying to understand or something. There was something I was holding on to that was making me still try to— I was still trying to rationalize a little bit. Like, I'd gotten most of it, but there was like a little bit— it was like, well, some of it just doesn't make any sense to me. And I was still holding on to that. Yeah, it's gone now though.

I think there's this element too of just kind of like giving yourself and surrendering to it, because it's not— it's almost like getting married. It's like, well, how do you know if marriage is great before you're married? Or what everybody's saying, you just gotta, you know, you just gotta commit.

Yeah.

And then you'll know, you'll experience it.

That's it. That's a— that's a good example. Yeah, it is kind of like that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

Well, Michaela, this has been amazing. I'm so grateful for you just, you know, sharing what you've shared. And, uh, um, yeah, you're up to a lot right now. Last question. What are you excited about? Like, like, like when you're thinking about yourself in 5 and 10 years, like, what does that look like? And what are some, like, what are you most excited about right now?

I'm really excited for the direction Peterson Academy is heading in. Like, I don't know what the upper limit of that is. It might be. We'll see. So that's, that's probably what I'm most excited about. I want to open a restaurant eventually. I haven't talked about that yet. It's so rigged. It's gonna happen. I'm gonna do it at some point, but I want a speakeasy.

I'm excited about that.

Serves steak, has live music, doesn't do seed oils.

That sounds fun.

Yeah.

I read somewhere that Scottsdale and Paradise Valley are trying to be the— are going to be the next, uh, Beverly Hills? No, actually, the article was something like the next— the US versions of— it wasn't Okinawa, but Japan. They were trying to say it's— they're trying to be the most health-conscious sort of cities and county in the—

oh, really?

US. Yeah, there's a lot of people, I think, behind trying to make it very health-conscious.

Okay, I can see that. There are— raw milk is very big here.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I was talking— I was on Alex Clark's show, and, uh, this was a few couple of months ago. And so she was, you know, talking all about the raw milk, which I saw. I saw, you know, you guys at the Maha event recently, or just, you know, a lot of, a lot of powerful female leaders there, which was, which was cool.

So yeah, very cool.

Well, thanks so much for coming on. This is so great.

Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Thanks for making the trek out here.

Yeah. Well, hey, I want to encourage everybody to check out all the amazing things Michaela has going on. Peterson Academy. Is out of this world. I'm excited, I'm signing up. And again, I've already watched so many, uh, you know, Jordan Peterson and a lot of his crew's different videos and events, things like that. Watch the Exodus series, watch the series on the Gospels, and a lot of others. And they've brought in some of the world's greatest leaders, um, that are incredible virtuous, uh, professors and experts in their category. So think about taking the top 1% of the top 1% of of educators and professors in their fields, and that's who they've brought into Peterson Academy. Here's the other crazy part. You can go through these courses at an absolute fraction of what you would do at a place like an Ivy League school, and you're not getting inundated with a bunch of garbage that's not true. Again, it's incredible education and value. So I want to encourage you guys, check out Peterson Academy. It's truly amazing. Also, follow Mikhaila. She's got an amazing podcast. She has a great social following. You can also follow the Lion Diet if you're a person saying, hey, I want to try lion and carnivore for a time. I've got major immune issues. That's something you could check out there as well. So, Michaela, just thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate you and, and just all the great things you're doing.

Thank you. Thank you for that too. That was very kind.