Surprising Health Benefits of Clay: Detox, Digestive Health & Skin Care Secrets

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Hey everybody, welcome to Dr. Josh Axe Show. I'm your host, Dr. Axe. In each and every week on this show, we dive deep into the science and principles behind how to grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. On today's episode, I'll be interviewing Vanessa Drew, and she is an expert in clay and colon health. She's a certified colon hydrotherapist. She is a, uh, or a certified colon hygienist, the owner of Clay Concepts, and she focuses on colon health detoxification and the science behind bentonite clay for healing. And if you're a person out there and you know that you are holding on to toxins, this is something you're going to want to hear. If you're a person out there looking to take your digestive health and your liver health and just the health of your lymphatic system to another level. We're going to dive deep into how to do that and how to use clay, which has been used for thousands of years in order to help people detoxify, cleanse, and heal. And so excited to dive into all that and a lot more today. And Vanessa, hey, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm a huge fan and just so happy to be here.

Awesome. Well, I'm excited to have you, and we're going to talk about things. We're going to talk about colon health. We're going to talk about the health of our gut. We're also talking about skin health and using clay for the health of our skin. But I'd love to start off hearing a little bit about what got you into clay. Listen, there are so many different products, there are so many different natural remedies out there, everything from honey to probiotics to vitamins and minerals. What caused you to have an interest in clay?

Well, when I was younger, I had digestive issues that were pretty severe. I couldn't handle dairy, I couldn't handle formula, so I had to go on a special diet. Years later, I ended up with a ruptured appendix. That was my near-death experience. The doctor diagnosed me, said I had gastritis, sent me home, and that night my appendix ruptured. I still to this day remember that feeling. It was just felt like I was getting stabbed with a knife. My mother was away and my father was caring for me. My fever had broken and, you know, he thought everything was all good. My mom came home the next day, saw me sitting on the couch, and she was like, "You're green. We're going to the hospital." They had to do emergency surgery. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks. I had this drain that had to drain all the puss out of my wound. It was pretty, pretty horrific at the age of 12 years old. But I had this like conscious decision at that young age in my mind that I was going to sort of take my health into my own hands. Like, I just had this mistrust for conventional medicine at that point. Um, I just was terrified. So later in life, um, I happened to be working at a health food store in Brooklyn, and I was a buyer of the store along with my partner at that time. And we got down to the show as the, uh, the Expo East where all the products are showcased. But we got down there, we took a trip from New York to Maryland, and my stomach was killing me. Like, we were down there eating— on the way down we were eating snacks, so I was having like an egg and a protein shake and all this healthy stuff. But by the time I got there, I was like nauseated. And I was like— I turned to him and I was just like, listen, I need to find something that's going to help my stomach or else I'm not going to make it throughout this day. So he's like, all right, let's start at the end of this Aisle here. So I walk over and there's this like makeshift sign and it says Living Clay. I walk over to it and there's like little shot glasses lined up of the liquid clay. And I basically asked 3 questions like, what is this? They answered clay. I said, can you drink it? They said yes. And I said, well, it'll help my stomach. They said yes. So I literally did 3 shots without even questioning another thing and instantly I felt better. So it was just like, oh my God, like this light went off in my head. So I had turned to him and I was like, we have to start making this. We have to like share this with the world. If it can help me this quickly, imagine what it can do for our customers. So that's where the Clay Obsession started. So we started making it and selling it through the health food store. And this was 20 years ago. So it was pretty fascinating how far I've come, but how many people I've helped along the way. But from that point, I didn't know that I was going to be a year later training to become a colon hygienist. And there I was introduced to Dr. Bernard Jensen's Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management book. That was like a game changer for me because the clay was already in my life. Now I was going to be offering these colon hydrotherapy sessions in the same building as the health food store. So following his protocol of bentonite clay along with the psyllium husk prior to coming in for these colon hydrotherapy sessions, we were really able to get more of this mucoid plaque out of people's gut. And I call it getting your snake out now because it's pretty fascinating when you see it come out of people. I mean, we all hold this inside of us. The biggest difference was, however, he was promoting sodium-based bentonite clay, and the clay that I had come across was calcium-based bentonite clay. And those two clays were similar but very different. The sodium-based bentonite clay wasn't as alkaline and wasn't really meant for long-term use. It was just for this series of, uh, days or weeks that you were doing the cleanse for. When calcium bentonite clay was much more gentle and, um, much more powerful in the fact that it could draw more toxins from the body. It's also a 9.7 pH, so it was more alkaline, which was fascinating to me. So we started using it on the customers and the clients, and we saw a drastic change in not only the amount of waste that came out of them with the colon hydrotherapy, but afterwards they were continuing to use the clay, and the results were just phenomenal. So that was the beginning of my clay story, and here we are now, 20 years later, and I'm just really trying to share it with the world because I think a lot of people can benefit from this simple product.

Now, now, why, why do you think— you had mentioned, and I'd love for you to share a little bit more about the mucoid plaque and sort of what's going on within people's colon, some of the issues there. How is that restricting people from being healthy?

Well, have you ever seen it before or no?

Uh, yeah, I have. I'm just asking. I'm familiar. Yeah, I've seen almost everything at this point. Not, not everything, but just almost.

So, but yeah, for people who haven't seen it, and I know a lot of your listeners already know about, uh, bentonite clay from the information you've shared with them, but, um Fascinating to me. So the mucoid plaque really develops in the colon when you have a diet high in dairy, wheat, gluten, and it's almost like this rubbery texture that's blocking your body from absorbing its vitamins and minerals and nutrients that you're getting from the foods. So when people come to me with gut issues and they wanna change their diet and they wanna change the way they're doing things in their life, it's really simple just to start with cleaning the gut out first so that when you're doing all these new healthy things, you can, absorb all the nutrients from the good stuff that you're taking. So we would see, you know, 2, 3 feet of ropey material come out of the person's body. And sometimes there'd be parasites in there, sometimes there would be ropes of Candida in there. And it's just like this disgusting but unbelievably interesting release that the body has. And sometimes it's along with an emotional release. After the client leaves, they feel, you know, they feel a little bit euphoric, but also it can bring out some emotions. And it has just changed their gut gut health completely. Energy levels, skin health, constant bloating, cravings for certain foods. It's been really fascinating. So when I write my book, I'll include some of the pictures in there for people to see.

Yeah.

And talk to me, so one of the things that— the way that I've used clay before myself, and a close friend of mine, Jordan Rubin, we have used clay extensively for, I don't know, 20 years or so. And he had ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. He used a little bit of clay at times because he had IBS-D, so IBS with diarrhea. And one of the things clay did for him was it helped sort slow his movements. And we've used it oftentimes as a binder. There are a lot of different binders. I think, I think I would say the most common binders, uh, people use today in the colon are carbon or form of activated charcoal is very common. Clay is the other one. And then sometimes it's humic and fulvic acid. These all can sort of bind to different things within the body. I, I, you know, I, I see it— the probably the most popular though today is, is, is charcoal or this carbon. And one of the, one of the challenges with all of these, uh, in particular the carbon and the clay, is, is that they can cause constipation. And they bind to a lot of things, right? They're binders. And so the great thing is they'll bind to toxins, they'll bind to parasites, they'll bind to Candida, they'll bind to almost everything and help cleanse the colon. But I found that activated charcoal causes a greater degree of, binding even than the clay, which causes even a greater degree of constipation versus the clay. It does cause constipation with some people, but there are remedies to help that, um, if somebody does struggle with that. For instance, I just had somebody who, uh, had a parasite infection. They went to Mexico, came back, major issues. We put them on the clay— well, someone else put them on the clay that I know. Then they had constipation from it, but then I was able— I had them go and do high-dose magnesium with some fiber, with some probiotics, and increase their water and electrolyte intake, and boom, they were good to go. But, um, share with me a little bit about maybe the difference between clay and charcoal or carbon and some of the other binders out there, and how does clay work as a binder?

So the clay, the calcium bentonite clay just to be specific, has a rectangular-shaped molecule that has these structures in it. So when it's activated with what we use is distilled water, it makes the clay living and magnetic. So when you drink it internally, you're not really absorbing any of the nutrients from it or any of the low levels of heavy metals in it, but it's running through your digestive system, grabbing all those things that you had said. So viruses, molds, parasites, fungus, bacterias, Candida, and then eliminating it out of the body. So this clay having that natural pH and that magnetic living drawing powder— power is different than the charcoal because it's actually like this magnetic pulling that happens. What we, we do use charcoal sometimes along with the clay, but then we're always prescribing fiber to follow behind it and a ton of water to make sure it all moves out. I have just seen with, because people when they come to me for the colon hydrotherapy will say that, oh, we've done colon hydrotherapy before, we've, you know, with or without my pre-cleanse prep using the different substances, binders, including like zeolite, and the results are just not the same than what the clay brings to it. I don't know if it's just because of how powerful, um, where my— where the sources that I'm getting it from, or, you know, just along with the psyllium, how it has that sweeping action. Because we do recommend before coming in for the colon hydrotherapy you use clay and psyllium fiber. I don't recommend psyllium every single day since that can kind of leave you bloated and just kind of leave you feeling a little uncomfortable. But when you add the hydrotherapy to it, I think that's what encompasses and encases all of that debris and helps it to come out much more easy and much more effectively.

What are some of the conditions when you think about the people that have seen the best results with taking clay as a— by the way, so, so what Vanessa does is she has a great product line that I've used, and, and she— you can use it topically, which is great for skin health, but also you can do a small amount of this clay as a liquid internally. Um, with doing that liquid clay, what are the conditions or the symptomatic challenges people have that you've seen the best results with? Maybe the top 3 to 5 conditions or so.

Sure. My top one is acid reflux. That, that has been shown time and time again to reduce the symptoms of that. And actually, I know acid reflux is connected to H. pylori. And I think that because the clay gets rid of the bacteria, that it actually helps to, um, really improve the condition. So that's number one. Number two is definitely IBS, like you had mentioned about your friend. Yeah. Um, one thing I can say about that, because you had mentioned the constipation that comes along with the clay, and what I notice is that when people do it a little bit more regularly, it tends to end up balancing the body. So if you're doing the clay for only a week, you may feel like it's constipating you because it's slow moving and it's drawing all the toxins to it. But what I can say is that if you don't use the bathroom right away from the clay and then you finally like do, it is a very complete and clean bowel movement.

Yeah.

If you could— so it really feels like something like important, like left the body. Like doesn't— that doesn't belong there. So IBS, definitely I've seen it work on constipation. I've also seen it work with boosting the immune system. And this really came to light during COVID for me because when my offices were shut down and my business was just came to a halt, people were still contacting me like what they could do. And as I was diving deep into research and I had really nowhere to go and nothing to do, I found a couple of studies showing how clay got rid of COVID in animal testing. And my next-door neighbor— this is one of my amazing testimonials— is that she is a PA in an emergency facility, and people were coming in like crazy, sick, dying, the whole thing. And I had did a post about the clay and how it helps get rid of COVID in the body. She immediately was like, I— text me, I need a bottle. So I obviously gave her some clay, and she was the only one in the entire facility that did not get sick. So it was— that was just huge.

Everybody around her was getting sick.

She didn't get COVID at all, being right there in the forefront of it at all times. So it was pretty crazy to see that. Um, the other thing that I feel like is really important with the clay is that it does help pull heavy metals. I've seen a lot of people with heavy metal toxicity that do blood tests and they come back and they— we've seen the levels get lower. So it's, it's pretty amazing because I know there is a misconception, but there is truth to that. Clay does contain metal because it comes from the earth So I know that you've discussed that in some of the articles that you've written.

Yeah, let me, let me take a moment there, Vanessa, because I do think this is an important thing. So, so what Vanessa is referencing here is if you go— and even in certain states like State of California, if you're selling a product with clay in it, you need to put on there may contain lead or may contain aluminum or heavy metals. The reality is though, because it's bound in the clay, you're not getting any of those metals. It's in the clay. And so again, clay is binding to more aluminum, it's binding to more arsenic, it's binding more cadmium and mercury and all these other heavy metals, pulling them out of the body. So because it contains a little bit, a little bit of those things— again, we're talking about ultra-trace amounts, very, very small amounts of these metals, which again are found in the soil, that's why it's there. Um, that, that's, uh, that, that's why a few people have a concern over, but really it's not an issue at all because it's, it's only going to bind to more of that in your body and actually pull it out of the body. So I did want to mention that, that is an important point, uh, that we need to make there.

And the clay that we use comes from a very specific mine and a very specific vein in the mine here in the United States. And after it's mined, it goes through a sieve process where it makes the clay rocks very, very fine, and so that when you do activate it with the water, it becomes that more magnetic. And then after they do that, there is a testing process to to make sure that it's in FDA standards for— it's rated as a GRAS product, generally rated as safe. And then once we get it, we make them in very small batches and then test again to ensure that it's of the highest quality and then package it out. And, you know, I, I've been drinking it for 20 years and I am pretty healthy and I feel great. It's helped me with my digestive issues. It's helped, you know, like I said, hundreds of clients of mine. So it is a safe product and I just want people to understand that. Obviously, I would never come on and promote something that wasn't, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think for people that have digestive issues especially, the, the reason I've prescribed it the most, uh, it's definitely for me it's been IBS-D and then infections, uh, or in terms of what I've used it for and seen really good results with. And again, I typically do it with higher dose. I tend to combine it myself. I'm not saying people have to do this, but I tend to do it with a higher dose magnesium and a probiotic and making sure people are getting a lot of a really clean diet, a lot of good fiber from their food on a regular basis as well. And I see— I've seen great results with that myself. You know, I, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on— well, I'd love for you to share just a little bit more about about different types of clay. Um, again, you know, I, I know that there— in the past, I've— and I've used both the sodium and the calcium. I know bentonite clay from Montana, um, is one that I've used before. Um, you know, share, share a little bit about why, why those two are, are different.

Yeah, so sodium-based bentonite clay molecule is more of like a pyramid-type shape molecule, when the calcium bentonite clay is a rectangular shape molecule. So the area in which the toxins can be absorbed like a sponge. So picture a sponge like sucking up liquid on the counter and then adsorbed, which is like sticking— the toxins will stick to the surface of the clay as well, like Velcro. So the, the drawing power of the calcium bentonite clay is much greater. And as I had mentioned before, the pH of the clay is very different. The calcium-based bentonite clay is at a 9.7, and I believe the sodium-based bentonite clay is much lower. It's a little bit more on the acidic range. That's why it's used more temporarily for like a specific type of detox that you want to do. And the calcium bentonite clay is really safe and gentle enough to use for a daily detox. Yeah. Um, you know, if we think about all of the toxins that we're being bombarded with every day, um, it's just like our body has its own detox process. And I just feel like once the clay is active and living and running through your body, it's just a safe, gentle, easy way to draw toxins out from the undesired toxins that we're constantly being exposed to, especially in certain careers that I've been— like, my husband's a firefighter, so he is exposed to a multitude of toxins on a regular basis. And the clay, I feel like, has been just a staple in his regimen in order to keep his toxic load down and help his body with the natural detox process. So, you know, just going back to— just so— just to circle back with that, the— even the texture of the sodium, and I'm sure since you've tried them both, um, the The texture of the sodium bentonite clay versus calcium bentonite clay is quite different, and you kind of can see the separation of the clay from the water in the sodium bentonite clay, and the calcium bentonite clay actually blends and binds together much, much, much more nice and much more—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one is smoother and the other— and with sodium, what sodium is typically going to do is it's going to draw things in. And so when you're going to take that internally, it's going to draw things into your cell, right? Potassium brings things— or sodium brings things into the cell, potassium helps flush things out of the cell. Acts more like a diuretic, where sodium, you're going to hold on to more of that, those water and fluids there. And so that makes, um, that makes sense. You know, one other application I want to mention where I've reused clay, uh, myself and Jordan Rubin, we own about 4,000 acres of certified organic, regenerative organic land, and we raise a lot of livestock. We raise zebu, it's an ancient type of cattle. We raise water buffalo, we've got, uh, we've got yaks, we have goat, we have sheep. So we have a lot of animals, but our cows specifically and our water buffalo and our yaks, we give clay to on occasion to support their health, especially if they're, uh, you know, and with sheep in particular, certain animals, uh, are, uh, can be exposed to, you know, are susceptible to parasites and natural things you're going to have on a farm. And so we've actually done some clay with certain animals if they're ill, giving it to them, and it's worked as a great form of a natural medication. We've also given oil of oregano to our chickens. In fact, we'll grow up some of these plants and give it to them regularly, and some other herbs. But clay has been something we've worked with. Is that something that you've ever worked with any farmers on, is using clay to help the health of their animals?

I actually have. One of my former employees has a farm out here on Long Island and she had chickens, or she has chickens, and she was putting the clay in the feed. And when she would bring the eggs in, they were completely different than the store-bought eggs. The way they were cooked, like the way they looked, the way they cracked. I mean, the eggs were completely different. So I do have some, uh, farmers that just local people that will get the clay from me and give it to their animals. And actually ran into somebody the other day in the, in the store, and he was, he was talking about his chickens, and I was like, you have to give them the clay, you know, because I know that, um, you know, they're animals, so they, they need to have health in their gut as well. And if we're going to be eating them, and, you know, I want to make sure they're healthy too.

Yeah, you know, one thing to remember, yeah, I wrote a book years ago called, uh, it was my first published book, it was called Eat Dirt. And in the book, I really got into part, part of— I do mention a little bit about clay in there and its cleansing properties and some of the benefits there. And if you think about it, our ancient— I mean, for some people they might think, well, eating clay, that sounds weird. But the reality is almost all of our ancestors consumed dirt because they would pull food from the ground. They might rinse it off, but they still had some of these soil-based organisms. There was a small amount of dirt there. And, and there are benefits of actually getting a little bit of soil in our diet and actually helping support our gut health and our immune systems. And so, and clay specifically has been used ancient civilizations for cleansing and healing for a very, very long period of time. As you have been in this industry for so long, have you read any about the history of clay use, what it was used for by ancient, you know, tribes in places like Native America and other, other regions of the world?

I have. And it's so— it's just so fascinating to me because I started calling it like the Swiss Army knife of wellness because there are so many uses for it. And most of the, like, digestive issues and immunity. Were the top ones that I found to be the most important. And now I feel like more research is being done and it's showing how it can really pull these harmful aflatoxins that I know that you talk about from the mold. And these— it's, it's just so scary that we're even being exposed to all these different things on so many levels this day and age when we really could be doing something about it. And the clay is just so gentle but so powerful in drawing these out of the body. So I just feel like, you know, bringing back the old things and the simple things in life is the way to go because there are so many different detoxes out there that you can do regularly. And most of the people are either intimidated by them, overwhelmed by the protocols that they have to do for them. And I'm not putting any one down. I think all detoxing is great and beneficial for certain people, but I just think it's important for people to have an easy solution and a simple solution to get their daily dose of detox in a safe and effective way. Um, now there are different ways that you can use clay in bigger doses and different protocols. One of my mentors is, um, Perry Aldridge. She wrote the book Living Clay. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her, but she has just been a clay pioneer and taught me everything I know. And she has more testimonials than anybody in the world on clay, and I've learned so much from her. And, you know, I just appreciate all the information that she shared. And it's just fascinating how this one product, when activated with water, which makes it 2 ingredients, can help so many different ailments that people usually turn to medicine for, and it's not necessary. So I think we need to just start thinking about going back to those old days and keeping it real simple.

Yeah, you know, one of the— yeah, I remember reading about, um, uh, some of these, these tribes from many years ago, and then the people, when they had digestive issues, when they had infections, they would go and find clay and they would actually eat it. And, um, and some of the therapeutic benefits there. You know, another thing that, that is, you know, it wasn't an ancient problem, but it's a modern problem today, has to do with all of the chemicals we're exposed to on a regular basis. Uh, one of the greatest offenders being glyphosate. We know from the, from, from, from Roundup Ready crops, we know that so many of our crops today, our corn, our wheat, soy, which are found in, you know, in a lot of products today, are are, are sprayed with glyphosate, which then we consume. And there are plenty of studies showing it's linked to ADHD, to cancer, to liver and kidney issues, to gut health issues. And so this in particular is one of those chemicals we want to detoxify from your body. So we've talked a little bit about detoxifying our body and the benefits of clay for, you know, specifically mold, uh, infections, parasitic infections, different types of bacterial infections. But I also think there are benefits of detoxifying things like glyphosate. And I, you You know, I've actually had a few patients do glyphosate detoxes because we looked at them, what they were exposing themselves to was a lot of glyphosate, and they had conditions like leaky gut syndrome. And what I had them do was— there's actually some great studies on a probiotic called Bacillus subtilis, uh, the specific strain is called AB22, but this is a soil-based probiotic that you'd find in the soil. Well, I would combine that with the clay, this, this unique soil— the soil-based probiotics with the clay— and have them do, do a detox. And issues like brain fog was one of the symptoms and digestive distress cleared up almost overnight. I mean, it was absolutely amazing because the probiotics help break down that glyphosate and then the clay just helps totally cleanse it and remove it from the body. Is that something you've seen or worked with, uh, you know, helping people detoxify from toxin exposure?

Oh yeah, I see it every day in my studios. You know, we focus on colon hydrotherapy but also lymphatic drainage. We have infrared saunas, we do the detox foot baths, and anybody— I have a lot of cancer patients sadly. Um, and when they're going through chemo and radiation, we recommend that they take the clay alongside, and it really helps to reduce and minimize the side effects from, from that type of treatment. So I know, um, that has helped so many of my clients. Another client of mine came in with her blood work. This was like a really fascinating— just, I, I've gotten a lot of studies through the years through my patients and There's tens of thousands of them. But this one particularly had, she had breast cancer. She went through surgery, had her breast removed, but she could not understand for the life of her why she would, why she got breast cancer. She thought she was a healthy individual. She ate healthy, she worked out. She had a doctor run a toxic panel and she had 14 carcinogen toxins in her blood when she came to me. So his recommendation was just simply doing the infrared sauna twice a week. So when I got a hold of her, we started talking more. So I put her on a protocol of doing— we do something called bioelectric lymphatic drainage with a machine called the Inspiration. So I had her doing that once a week, followed by the infrared sauna, and then coming in another day for the sauna while taking the clay. She did this for 8 weeks and retested. Out of 14 of those, there were only 3 left behind, and they were all at 50% of what they were when they started. So she is like my walking testimony Danielle, she is absolutely ecstatic that she was able to remove that level of toxicity from her body in a short period of time. It didn't cost her a fortune, you know, it was just something that she needed to get to the bottom of. She did. And just from doing these simple techniques, she was able to reach her wellness goals. And that's really my message, that I just want people to understand that they have the option to take their health into their own hands. And, you know, I know it can get confusing with so many things out there, but really just to kind of keep it simple, you know.

Yeah, what is the dosage if somebody's just starting off and they want to really do this gently, which is, which is what I recommend personally anytime I do this? But what is the dosage typically? It's about a teaspoon a day of liquid clay.

So again, our clay is already prepared for you, so there's no mixing. I do sell the powder too, but it's already done for you. So really, I recommend starting taking 1 ounce in the morning and 1 ounce in the in the evening, um, and people start feeling a difference almost right away, the first, the first couple days. Um, again, I do tell people that it may feel like it's constipating them or slowing down their bowels, just to increase their water intake, because most people are not drinking enough water anyway that come to me who are constipated. So the water intake is huge. And then, you know, if they need to help move it along, just to incorporate more fiber in their diet, you know, and then once it starts getting into their system, it starts regulating them and they just come back and they just absolutely love it. And they're just feeling less bloated, um, clear mental clarity, less cravings for sugars. Uh, people who are doing, you know, a specific protocol, and I get most of my protocols from Peri-A's book, so we'll follow her protocols like step by step for each individual client who's trying trying to reach a goal. But when they incorporate it with the hydrotherapies, we're able to see the ropes of Candida coming out of their body, sometimes the parasites. So it's just, just fascinating. But I do recommend starting slow, and you can increase, you know, as you go, as long as you're having the right results with it. And then again, if there is a particular protocol or a goal that they're trying to achieve, then we can just monitor and see. And I know not everybody has the accessibility ability to get a colon hydrotherapy, um, treatment while using the clay, but you could always just do an enema at home with it and it would work the same way.

Yeah, yeah. And I, I just want to throw this out there. I think I've seen the best results with people when they've done clay and they've also been conscious of following a protocol in terms of saying, okay, I'm going to do this clay regularly, but I'm also going to up my water intake and do some electrolytes. I'm also going to try and do more fresh fruits and vegetables in my diet and things like that, and fiber to really support my bowel movements, and going on regular walks and things like that. And so if you're a person out there saying, you know what, I realize I need to support my digestive system, I need to detoxify and cleanse, you know, write down what you're going to do, including the, you know, the clay, starting off at a teaspoon a day, maybe moving up to 2 a day, once in the morning, once at night, as, as Vanessa here recommends. I think it's a great way to go. You know, one other area outside of the digestive system where I think clay has some benefits, and I know you've used a lot, is with skin health. Um, talk to me a little bit about how clay can benefit our skin.

So going back to the infections, I actually, um, from through Perry again, I got some pictures of these third world countries where they have these flesh-eating diseases, and they would take this calcium bentonite clay and pack it on the skin, and it would heal the skin from the inside out, actually making the skin absolutely perfect. So we've seen it used in crazy scenarios like that, but also on acne in adults and young children, kids going through puberty. I mean, it is just— cleared up skin, tightens, brightens the skin, eczema, psoriasis. You can even use it in your mouth for your gums, which is really amazing. Um, it just helps to balance the bacteria on the skin and in your mouth, and it just overall helps to balance the pH, I believe. And we've just seen such great results with the people that use it. I used it for my eczema, psoriasis, and it has changed my— it's changed my skin. But I think the key is that, you know, if there's something coming out on the skin, that really there is something inside that needs to be addressed as well. So the one-two punch is really kind of, you know, taking the clay internally as well as using it externally on the skin in order to achieve the results that you're really looking for more quickly. So when was the first time that you were ever introduced to clay and the idea of using it? How did it come into your life?

Well, it came into my life through, um, through Jordan Rubin, a close friend of mine. And so when he was sharing with me some of the benefits and how he'd used it, um, and, uh, and so, you know, I started using it some back then, prescribing it to patients more as I started doing some research. And then I ended up having a little bit of leaky gut myself. It was from over work more than anything. And I used a little bit then, and, um, but more so it was— and another time was I went on a mission trip once to Africa, and I got back and just had, you know, had gut issues for a few weeks. And so I used it then as well and really helped coming back from, um, some, uh, some food that I ate was not the best in Ethiopia. So anyways, but, uh, definitely helped tremendously with with that. And, um, but yeah, so I would say that was probably about 15— let's see, 15, 16 years ago, something like that, in terms of when I, when I first started using it. Was probably, um, probably about then. So yeah, but yeah, very, very early on in practice, I would, I would, I would recommend it to patients. And as you mentioned, it's great for a lot of things, including, you know, skin health. I think for a lot of people, poison ivy acne, um, you know, it can be very detoxifying and cleansing for the skin. Doing a face mask with it, I know, has lots and lots of benefits as well. Um, and so it's binding to that bad bacteria, it's binding to those excess oils and helping them pull that, um, helping them pull that from the body. You know, one of the things you've mentioned, um, several times is using bentonite clay and combining that with other things like hydrotherapy or lymphatic drainage. Talk to me a little bit about the lymphatic system how you've incorporated using clay with, with, with lymphatic drainage.

Well, the specific lymphatic drainage that we use in the office is called bioelectric lymphatic drainage. Basically, it's a device that inside of this wand, there's two noble gases. One is argon and one is neon, and together they create a negative ion. So when we're treating a client on the table, we run around the whole entire body with this wand. It gets warm. It actually makes this buzzing sound that puts your body into parasympathetic Healing mode. And what it's doing is that negative ion, the electric light pulse is gently warming the body, but it's also sending that light pulse of negative ion into the body. So it's opening up and helping the stagnant lymph fluid to get flowing again. And so, um, top, I believe the lymphatic system is, I know the lymphatic system is the main drain of the body, but I used to have this again from Dr. Bernard Jensen's book Death Begins in the Colon, and I started correlating that to— yes, he's exactly right, because if you're not moving the toxins out of your gut, then they're getting recycled through your lymphatic system. And every disease known to man is kind of starting from this stagnant, sluggish lymph system. And since your lymphatic system doesn't have a pump like the heart, it's up to us to get things kind of moving. So I always recommend that my clients do some dry skin brushing, maybe a little bit of rebounding, and then manual lymphatic drainage has its place. But I've never seen anything quite like this device and, and how it works, because, you know, pathogens in the body hold a positively charged ionic base. So basically, the clay has this negatively charged ionic base, like the negative ion that those two noble gases are creating. So whenever you introduce a negative ion to the positive ion, the negative ion seems to win. And what happens is that die-off— so we're destroying the pathogen, but then we're getting that stagnant lymph fluid flowing again to the proper organs for elimination. So people will come in for this 45-minute treatment, and then afterwards we recommend that they go dump the toxins with one of the other therapies that we have. So it could be the colon hydrotherapy, it could be the infrared sauna, it could be the the detox foot bath or the ozone steam sauna, whatever modality we decide is gonna be best for them to help release as many toxins as possible. Uh, we have a lot of Lyme patients that come through. Um, so we've seen that work really, really well, um, along with the use of clay after to capture any toxins that still might be floating around in there. So, um, that'll help pull it out. But with the time, it has been just tremendous because the protocol that I had put them on— and this is just sort of like me being intuitive also because I'm not a medical doctor, um, it's just working with patients for a very long time— and it's this individualized, personalized protocol that we come up with. And, you know, obviously I appreciate them trusting me, and, you know, I feel like I'm being guided, you know, uh, through God or higher power in my life to just intuitively feel what the client needs, and I give them simple protocols that give the results. But the lymph and the clay together for co-infections and Lyme disease have been just a game changer for my clients.

Yeah, I love that. Um, I, I, I think that there are so many, uh, different types of therapies that can, you know, have a synergistic effect when you pair them together. Are there any vitamins or supplements or other things that you sometimes pair with the clay in order that may also have a synergistic effect and help, help your clients?

Well, using the clay actually helps your body to absorb the nutrients that you're going to— if you're taking it from foods or you're taking it from supplements, it'll help your body. It makes them more bioavailable to the body, right? So there are certain supplements that should not be taken within a certain time frame of the the clay. So if you're taking your vitamin D or your omegas, any kind of oil-based supplements should be taken 2 to 3 hours away from the clay because they just don't mix. The clay will actually pull the oil out of the body. Um, but the other supplements that we recommend is like, I love your powder greens, like I think they're so amazing. So I really recommend Green Nutrients because not everybody has the ability to get a fresh juice every day. So I think it's really important to get those vitamins and minerals from a green, trustworthy source, obviously. Um, other things are probiotics, of course, that we recommend to our clients. I love enzymes. Plant enzymes are like one of my favorites, and it— notice that it helps my clients digest and break down the foods and, and get the nutrients that they need. But again, I just try to keep it like very simple, and I also just kind of stay in my lane with digestive care. I don't recommend too many— like, if somebody Like, if you were to refer your patients to me, I would never interfere with whatever protocol you have them on for supplementation. But I do recommend that they do my protocols prior to just coming in for the prep to ensure that we're going to get the most out of their sessions.

Yeah, that makes sense. As you mentioned, it's important to know that clay does bind to certain things like oils and some of the fat-soluble nutrients. And so to take those at just different times, a couple hours apart, different times a day. If you are laying out a specific protocol for somebody, let's say some of our listeners, they want to try clay or some of these detoxification treatments. What are some of the steps they should take to ensure that they're using these therapies, you know, safely and effectively?

Well, for the clay, you definitely want to have a trusted source, you know, somebody that's been in business for a long period of time that does have the testing to back it up. And, you know, the knowledge, because not all clay is considered equal. The other thing is, is obviously finding of the proper facility if you're going to go to, to make sure that they're IAC certified for colon hydrotherapy, that their values are in line with yours, and just making sure they're not just trying to sell you stuff over and over. I don't believe in that. I like to keep people on a regimen of balance so it becomes part of their lifestyle. And it's, you know, like every quarter they'll come in and they'll do their quarterly cleansing, and then they're on their supplements and stuff in between and making sure that they're doing their maintenance stuff. But I think that people just need to find, um, people that they trust, like, and know. And referrals are great. There are amazing therapists all across the country for colon hydrotherapy. I'm actually attending the IAC convention next week, so that should be exciting. And I just think that you need to have, you know, trusted people like yourself spreading the word about how, you know, we can be our own advocates for health and just have the right guidance. I think there's a lot of over-prescribing, even, even in the supplement world too sometimes.

Yeah, well, I think one of the things that happens is sometimes, uh, this happens with a lot of physicians, is they sort of recommend the same thing for everybody, and it's not a tailored approach, it's not personalized. And I think that that's one of the benefits of working with a practitioner that really knows their stuff, that is more personalized. Now, I still see some practitioners do this— they'll put every person on keto, or they'll put every person on done, you know, some therapy, and oftentimes it's not necessary. And sometimes it's because they're maybe, you know, financially tied to something and they're not allowing themselves to still recommend, um, well, you know, the thing that's most necessary for the patient. Even though I've owned supplement companies and I have had financial interests in certain companies, I still morally always do my best to drive people towards the thing that I believe they need the most, even if I'm not going to benefit from it financially. You know, I think about that. Like, you know, I, I have a supplement company, I recommend that a lot, but if there's something else that, uh, other people are going to benefit more and we don't carry the brand, I recommend the other brand if they, if they don't, you know, if it's not going to benefit them. So I, I do really believe that we're called as practitioners to sacrifice monetary gain to work with the highest ethical standards possible of personalizing things for people to help them heal and, and live as long as possible. And so I want to encourage everybody to, uh, to try out clay if you have some of the things we've talked about today. You, you might think, oh, I, I might have some of this mucoid plaque because your digestive system just feels off and you feel sluggish and you just don't feel that vitality that maybe you did when you were younger. I mean, that's one of the things there she talked about, as, you know, Vanessa talked about acid reflux. We talked about infections, especially mold and Lyme and parasitic, uh, are some of the top infections there as well. We talked about, again, of course, inflammatory bowel disease, IBS-D. Uh, there's a lot of these conditions you can really benefit from, or just doing a— or just doing a cleanse. And as we talked about as well, I want to just say it's always important to listen to your body. If you get on clay, as Vanessa talked about, sometimes it can take a few days because your body is binding to things. And so you may not have a bowel movement for a day or two. But if that's the case, just know, hey, Maybe you need to drink more water, maybe up your magnesium, up some probiotics, get some more of that, that fiber. And some foods that have potassium can also help this a little bit, uh, and that's going to be mostly fruit and berries. Watermelon is going to be high up on that list. But these foods, a little extra sea salt, but basically it's hydration, you know, that's going to help tremendously as well along with doing the clay. But if you want to do a detox, if you want to use clay, I've personally used Vanessa's products here, and her product line is called Clay Conceptions, or I'm sorry, Clay Concepts. And so, um, that's one I've personally used and I think is a great recommendation for anybody. And I also want to say, sometimes whether you're going to use it right now or later, it's nice to have on hand. You know, I think if you're ever— if you have a, you know, if you have, you know, an older child or you yourself feel, okay, I got a stomach bug, or I got food poisoning, or something just doesn't feel right in my system, the fact that you can then go and take, you know, a teaspoon or two of clay and it helped get you relief pretty quickly sometimes um, is, is just so incredible. And so I want to encourage you guys to go and check out Vanessa's product here called Clay Concepts. It's one of the highest and most premium forms of clay in the entire world where they mine it here in the United States. And want to say, Vanessa, hey, thanks so much for coming on. I so appreciate you and your great products and you coming on and educating everybody about the benefits of clay and hydrotherapy and lymphatic drainage. So thanks so much for your time.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

Let everybody know where they can— they can find more about you and your products as well, like website, social, that sort of thing.

So people can find me on Instagram at Detox Clay World, and then my website is detoxclayworld.com. And for your listeners, if they use the code AXE10, they'll save 10% off their first order. And I'm just— I'm honored to be on your show, so thank you so much.

Dr. Axe. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Vanessa. And hey, thanks everybody for taking part in the show today, and I hope you've learned a lot about clay. I know that's something I've used for years, everything from my health to my kids to our animals at our regenerative organic farm. And it was so nice of Vanessa to come on and share her wisdom today. I want to say thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe Show, where each and every week we dive deep into the science and the principles behind how to heal and grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Hey, don't forget to subscribe Subscribe, like, and share. We'll see you on the next episode.