The Spiritual Root of Anxiety Nobody Is Talking About | Madison Prewett Troutt

Yeah, the only thing I remember is there's just a lot of people making out. You know, when you were on The Bachelor, what was the biggest challenge in being a Christian on that show?

The biggest? Pray, pray, pray. James talks about it again and again and again. In all circumstances, pray continuously. Never stop praying. Stepping into that environment was so hard. There was definitely temptation everywhere, darkness everywhere. I mean, even, you know, some of the people who helped put on the show would literally consider themselves witches and you're faced with the constant, you know, pressure and temptation of, am I gonna kind of give in? And am I gonna kind of conform to just like what everybody else is doing and what's being asked of me? Like, I don't wanna feel like a bad person for like the standards that I have. Or am I gonna stay true to who I know God is and who I know God has called me to be and stay true to those values and to my beliefs? If I'm gonna stay true to my values, if I'm gonna stay true to my convictions, well, what is truth? Like, what is my foundation of truth? And I just think so many people, we don't have the answer to that question.

Yeah.

And so then we're just following whatever reel we see on social media, whatever ad pops up or whatever the people around us are doing. But asking yourself that question, I just challenge everyone who's watching and listening, what is truth? I went into that dark environment, you know, completely in love with Jesus. I actually had gone through Bible college before that and wanted to, you know, teach the Word of God for a living.

What are your thoughts on dealing with childhood trauma?

Even going on a TV show like The Bachelor, there were some traumatic things that you know, my brain went through and that then stress was released and my hormones got off and my body was kind of like fighting against itself. And I was dealing with all of these like health issues because of this kind of trauma that I faced. And then this, you know, inability to sleep and this inability to eat. And it just like led to all of these different things. Am I gonna follow what I want most or am I gonna give into what I want right now? So many moments. I mean, then you can think about that with the food you eat and the way you work out.

Yeah, well, I've been so impressed with the way that, you know, you have really focused on having your faith interwoven into everything from the way that you were on television to, again, your health and your podcast and everything else you're doing.

For me, it was just continuing to come back to this place of what I want most is a relationship with God. What I want most is to find a man of God to spend the rest of my life with. What I want most is to make a difference for God and to point other people to God.

My guest today stood in front of millions on one of the biggest shows on television and refused to compromise what she believed. What the cameras didn't show was the deeper story, the anxiety, the faith, the identity behind the conviction. Madison Pruitt Trout is an author, a speaker, and the host of the Stay True podcast. Hi, I'm Madison Pruitt Trout. Her book, Dare to Be True, is helping a generation build real faith, fight anxiety, and stand firm in a culture of compromise.

Maddie, welcome to the show.

Thank you. That was an incredible intro. I feel ready to go.

You know, I just, I wanted to be prepared here for you. Well, hey, it's so good to see you. I know I was on your podcast a few months back and we've had a chance to, you know, talk a little bit over the past few months and yeah, really excited you're here.

I'm so excited. I've been going to the clinic. It's been changing mine and my husband's life and And now my mom's going. I mean, it's just like the family, we're now all involved.

It's so great. I love that. Health's a family affair. Well, I know when I went to your house, you and Grant had a massive home gym. You had an infrared sauna.

We did.

So when I, I mean, as soon as I walked in and I was just, you know, throwing my coffee away.

We did it all for you. It was all staged. It was all staged. It was all for you. No, I'm just kidding.

So funny.

No, yeah, we had the infrared, we have the cold plunge, the whole 9 yards.

You guys are doing it right. So let me ask you, why do you do that? Or why should a Christian do everything they can to honor God with their body?

I'm not saying every Christian out there needs to be, cold plunging and doing infrared light.

But why should Christians more than anyone else focus on health and wellness?

Yeah, I just believe our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and how we care for this house that God lives in really matters. And so, you know, for Grant and I, that's something we've continued to talk about, and we have not done it perfectly. Um, you know, and through different seasons of life, we've had some seasons that we've done it better than others, but we continually just come back to this, place of, we want to live a life of excellence. We wanna live a life that honors God in everything that we do, how we steward our bodies, how we steward our times, how we steward our resources, our finances, our relationships. Like, every aspect of our life, does this glorify God? And I just think most of the time, as Christians, we think about it just in a compartmentalized way. Like, our faith is just reading the Bible. Our faith is just going to church.

Yeah.

Our faith is just small group time, but we don't see it as, Our faith is every area of our life, every aspect of our life. And can we look at our life in every area and say, this glorifies God? And when people watch us, you know, the way we eat, the way we take care of ourself, the way we spend our time, the way we spend our money, would they say, wow, they're living a life that truly reflects God? Or would they be like, yeah, I don't really know. It kind of looks like, you know, the rest of the world.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been so impressed with the way that, you know, you have really focused on having your faith interwoven into everything from the way that you were on television to, again, health and your podcast and everything else you're doing. You know, I've really enjoyed being able to connect with Christians, uh, and supporting them get— in supporting them and getting healthy. In fact, I don't know that I've ever shared this before. When I first was deciding where I was going to move and open up my clinic, like, I grew up in Ohio, Mm-hmm. and then I was in school in Florida. And so I didn't really have any connections or roots necessarily to Tennessee, but I just really spent some time in prayer and I felt like God said to me, I want you to go to Nashville and help Christians get healthy and honor them with their body. And that's part of why I ended up moving here. And then, and then, then there's been so many Christians I've been able to connect with over the years and some that I just really respect who you're going to know a lot of these people, our audience, well, who are, you know, they're like you. It's woven into their life. I think of Candace Cameron Bure or Tim Tebow, like they're both really into health and fitness.

Yes.

Craig Groeschel, John and Lisa Bevere. I had Michael W. Smith on last week. Like, he's got a greenhouse, he's got a farm, he's got chickens, you know, so, so I love seeing Christians, even more now than I've ever seen, really focus on honor God with their body. I remember the church potlucks growing up. I was, I went to a Christian school and, and it was like, you know, the just, you know, not healthy at all.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Not healthy at all.

And I grew up in Alabama. And so like, you know, corn dogs, pizza, it just was very normal. And at church, you know, you're so used to the like, after service, come grab some donuts, grab a slice of pizza. And so that was kind of what I was very used to. And it really wasn't until I got married and, you know, was like, oh, I need to probably start learning how to cook and all these things. And then my husband grew up in Dallas, Texas, and had a little bit more of a healthier lifestyle. And so he kind of rubbed off on me that way. And then as we just continued to, I mean, honestly, reading the Biblio Diet and just like diving more into kind of, yeah, the health and wellness space, it's something that I just became so passionate about.

I love it. You know, I think this idea, like we're called to be a light to the world, just in every area, just reflect God and do everything we can to honor him with our bodies. So I love it. You know, one of the areas I wanna kind of dive into, I wanna come back to physical health and hormones and some things there, but I do wanna start off talking about anxiousness. And this is something I know, I've talked to Rebecca Lyons quite a bit about, I've talked to some others, but this seems to be even, I think, a little bit more in your generation of just a high degree of loneliness and anxiousness. Why do you think that is?

I think we're more connected than ever because of social media, but more disconnected than ever because of social media. And so I think there's this, think that you're connected to people, but you're not really connecting to them. And so there's not a, you know, I just, even in spending time with people that I love that are a generation, you know, younger than me, there's just such a hard time dialoguing, you know, like feelings, looking in the eyes, having a conversation. And I think you're just seeing a generation that because of social media, there's just been more of a disconnect in that way.

Yeah.

So I do think that that plays a huge role in it. It can lead to so many different types of anxieties. I know for, as a female, you can get on social media and everything about your life, you can feel so content, you can feel so confident. And then instantly you get on social media and suddenly you're comparing your body. You're seeing someone else's success. You're seeing someone else's, you know, marriage where their spouse is walking in with 100 roses and 100, you know, like all these beautiful romantic things. And suddenly you're like, wait, why isn't my spouse doing that? Why don't I have this house? Why doesn't my body look like this? And it just leads to this like, Mm-hmm. Debilitating comparison and anxiety in those ways. So I think it, it can lead to loneliness. I think it can lead to comparison and discontentment with self and with life. And so I would say that's really one of the biggest reasons. And then of course, if we're not spending time in the word of God and we're going to God as our source of peace, as our source of security, as our source of hope, I think there's going to always be a longing for stability. And we're gonna try and find that in other things when ultimately that can only be found in God. And I've walked through, you know, with people who have gone through really, really bad anxiety, people that I very much love. Even my husband has walked through it really heavily. I've walked through seasons of it. And, you know, it's not one of those things that you can just like slap somebody and say, just pray about it, you know?

Yeah.

Just like, love God more. And that's not the case. However, I do believe it is a spiritual battle, and I do believe you have to fight Spirit with spirit. And I do believe that that is where you should start. That's not where I'm saying it has to just stop and finish. But I do believe starting in prayer, starting in the Word, starting and confessing it to community, hey, I'm feeling anxious right now. I'm gonna confess that. Will you pray for me? And I've just seen that lead to instant breakthrough and instant healing. Um, and then you do the next steps, you know, look at your diet. How are you spending time outside? Are you doing life with people? Are you spending time with people, or is it just on your phone all the time?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I listened to this, um, it was like a seminary class and they were talking about the— the professor was talking about in order for us to be healthy, we need to be deeply connected to 3 things. Number one, God. Number 2, people. Number 3, the earth and nature. And it really made me think about this sort of if we're going to be healthy, to your point, and with a spiritual battle. And I really think anxiety and depression, while there are some common you know, deficiencies like vitamin D and omega-3 fatty acids, generally it is absolutely a primary spiritual and mental battle. And you need to take care of that foundation first. And so I love that you're saying that because in the medical field today, if somebody has anxiousness and depression, they never even think about spirituality. They don't think about emotions. They don't think about human connection. It's just, here's a synthetic drug, which has a massive side effect.

Yeah.

As well, by the way. So, but with that, You know, so, so it's just, it's not getting to the root of the issue. But to your point, you know, really connecting with God, we know building meaningful relationships, and part of that is removing the focus off yourself and serving others, which is so paradoxical, right? I mean, you would think, oh, if I need to care for myself, it's like, no, you remove the focus from yourself. Okay. You know, it's so true. Yeah.

It's so true. You believe the lie that if you could just fix you, then you'll be better for everybody else. And it's like, actually, if you just focus on everybody else, then it might fix you. Like, just show up and serve. Show up and love, show up and think about how can I encourage someone? And I just think so often we're showing up thinking, who's gonna encourage me? Who's gonna see me? Am I gonna be enough? You know, is, am I gonna have, and it's just like, if you can show up thinking about how you can serve and how you can love other people, it really makes such a difference.

I love it. I'm big into natural prescriptions, and I know that sometimes fighting anxiety and depression might not be formulaic, but I am curious, if you had to write a prescription for somebody spiritually to overcome anxiety, what are some of the top things you would say to do? maybe a certain amount of something, a time of day or something, a few things in particular?

Yeah, well, I think it definitely starts with prayer. I think you see all throughout scripture, you know, are you in trouble? Are you happy? Are you in need of healing? Are you, pray, pray, pray. James talks about it again and again and again. In all circumstances, pray continuously, never stop praying. Scripture is so clear about that. Don't be anxious about anything, but instead pray about everything. And so have you prayed about it as much as you've worried about it, as much as you've thought about it, as much as you've talked about it? Pray first. That's always my biggest piece of advice. The second thing would be confess, like confess it to a friend, confess it to a mentor, confess it to a pastor, confess it to a small group leader, confess it to someone that loves God and loves you, that you trust, and you trust their relationship with God. And confess the hard things, confess the lies you're believing, confess the feelings you're feeling.

Mm-hmm.

And have them pray. Again, James says that if you want to be healed, then confess and have someone pray over you, then you will be healed. And so, I believe in the power of prayer. I believe in the power of confession and bringing it into the light. I believe that the enemy's kingdom is one of darkness. And so, when you keep those secrets and those thoughts and those lies that you're believing, those feelings that you're feeling in the dark, it just gives the enemy more work to just keep that spiraling and keep that multiplying and going. But as soon as you confess it and bring it to the light and have someone else invited into that journey and process with you, I just believe it breaks so much of the grip that Satan has. And so, I would say starting there, and then, You know, if it is continuing to be so severe that it's debilitating, you don't know what else to do. I would say for sure, like, look at your diet. I would say spend some time outside, make sure that those things are being checked off. And, and then I would say, yeah, if you need to seek out, you know, outside help outside of that, go to Longevity Clinic.

Yeah.

I mean, go, go find a place that is in alignment with the kind of life that you wanna live and what you care about. Like, for me, I wanna, you know, go to Longevity Clinic. I wanna go to somewhere like that where I know Okay, yeah, I'm not gonna just be prescribed drugs. I'm not gonna be prescribed these things. Like, they're gonna actually care about my longevity. They're gonna actually care about my spirit, my body, my soul, and they're gonna treat those things.

Well, what do you think about, by the way, I agree with everything you said, and especially in terms of the, I mean, prayer and confession, those are just so, so foundational when it comes to overcoming anxiousness. 2 other thoughts here just to add to what you shared. One would be, you know, spending time in Just praise, gratitude, sort of those things. And then the other one would be, what are your thoughts on dealing with childhood trauma? 'Cause this is something I see that for some people, they get in these patterns of these negative mindsets of maybe something happened a long time ago and they're still kind of living with some of that pain today.

Yeah, I was literally reading in 2 Corinthians 10 earlier today, and it was just talking about how we have been given power and authority to demolish strongholds and every pretension that has set itself up against the knowledge of Christ. that we can take captive every thought, and that we can submit it to Christ. And so, I would say it's twofold for me, because I do believe that there are 100% things that have, people have walked through that are so big and traumatic that it can't just stay in your head. It can't just be between you and God.

Yeah.

You've got to let people into that. You've got to let, whether that's counseling, whether that's, I mean, I definitely believe that no matter what the trauma is, it should always involve like friendship and godly community and church community, a church family. But inviting people into that space, not trying to deal with, you know, those things on your own, those thoughts on your own, is so huge. And then I, yeah, and then I just, again, I go back to the word of God, I go back to confession, I go back to community. Those are kind of always prayer. Those are kind of always my thoughts. I know for me, just walking through, even, you know, you alluded to this in my intro, but even going on a TV show like The Bachelor, Traumatic things that you know my brain went through, and that then stress was released, and my hormones got off, and my body was kind of like fighting against itself. And I was dealing with all of these like health issues because of this kind of trauma that I faced, and then this you know inability to sleep, and this inability to eat, and it just like led to all of these different things. And for me, I just continued to fight that with, of course, like taking care of my body, but also fighting it spiritually, confessing. confessing it to people, bringing people into it, not trying to figure it out by myself. Um, and part of that was getting connected, you know, to a great, you know, health and wellness doctor that could help me walk through that naturally, um, at that time, but also bringing community into it of, you know, confessing those traumatic things that I had walked through and also the anxious feelings I was feeling as a result of it.

Yeah, yeah, that's so powerful. You know, when you were on The Bachelor, what was the, what was the biggest challenge in being a Christian on that show?

The biggest.

By the way, I'll just— I'll say this. I don't, you know, my wife Chelsea's watched some episodes, some seasons. I, I don't think I've ever— I mean, I've watched a few episodes, so I don't— I know a little bit about what's going on. Not a lot.

That's very fair.

But, um, yeah, the only thing I remember is there's just a lot of people making out.

You know, that's what I—

that's what I remember.

You're not wrong. Sadly, you're not wrong. Like, he just made out with her.

Yes.

After I'm in love with—

And he's dating 30 people. Dating 30 people, yeah. It's insane. It's insane. No, and it was a crazy experience for so many reasons because I was a strong believer. And so I— it wasn't like I went on the show and then I got saved after, you know, and I'm like working through it after. It's like I went into that dark environment, you know, completely in love with Jesus. I actually had gone through Bible college before that and wanted to, you know, teach the Word of God for a living. And so that was my life. That was my lane. I was a church girl. I grew up in, you know, a very like Jesus-loving, Spirit-filled church. And that was my life. And so, when my friend applied me for the show without me knowing, and I got the call, I totally treated it, Josh, as a prank call. I was like, this is not real. There's no way this is real.

Wow.

And there's no way they would want this girl from Alabama who wants to tell everybody about Jesus for a living. Like, this just isn't adding up. And as I took the time to really pray about it with my family, I felt like this— God was leading me into that environment that made no sense. I had never watched the show. I actually judged all of my friends who watched the show, and I told them they needed to get their life right with God because there was something wrong with them because they were watching The Bachelor.

Wow.

And then, you know, God just has an amazing sense of humor. And that was the path that, you know, I felt like God had for me. And stepping into that environment was so hard. There was definitely temptation everywhere, darkness everywhere. I mean, even, you know, some of the people who helped put on the show would literally consider themselves witches and would call themselves witches. There would be conversations with, you know, girls and just like things that you're witnessing and seeing that is just really, really hard. And you're faced with the constant, you know, pressure and temptation of, am I gonna kind of give in? Am I gonna kind of conform to just like what everybody else is doing and what's being asked of me? Or am I gonna stay true to who I know God is and who I know God has called me to be and stay true to those values and to my beliefs? Because that's what matters most. And I think what I've seen in life is you're gonna be faced with so many moments of temptation and pressure, and ultimately it's going to come down to, am I gonna follow what I want most, or am I gonna give in to what I want right now?

Hmm.

And there's so many moments. I mean, that you can think about that with the food you eat and the way you work out.

Right, yeah.

And it's like this immediate satisfaction over this long-term, you know, goal and hope and desire and dream. And for me, it was just continuing to come back to this place of what I want most is a relationship with God. What I want most is to find a man of God to spend the rest of my life with. What I want most is to make a difference for God and to point other people to God. And so, I had to keep coming back to that place. But there There were a lot of really hard moments and truly moments where I would have to kind of like sneak away, 'cause you're filmed the whole time. I mean, there's—

Oh yeah.

Cameras on you from the moment you wake up at 6:00 AM, you know, until the moment you're going to sleep at 1:00 AM. And so, you're running on no sleep and the food is not great, you know? And so, there's just, there's a lot going on, but I would have to just sneak away and truly like lock myself in the bathroom and just cry out to the Lord and be like, I need you. I don't know how to show up. I don't know how to stay true. I don't know how to keep doing this. But I need you to lead me. And he did through that whole wild journey. And it was a beautiful now outcome of now getting to share it with other people.

Wow, that's amazing. You know, this is a— here's a question for you. How do you know what you want most? Like, how did you discover it? Because I think there's maybe some people, especially maybe that didn't grow up in faith-driven homes or didn't, you know, and maybe, They, they, they just, they don't know what they want. And so they just, they keep going to this immediate thing. But, you know, how, how did you, how do people discover and recognize, oh, that's, that's what I want?

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I was literally just talking to my 14-year-old cousin about this, 'cause I'm like, you're about to enter high school, okay? And you're gonna be faced with a lot of opportunities—

Yeah.

To compromise and to cave and to conform and to give in. And it's going to come back to like, what do I value most? What do I want most? And you've gotta know that, and you've gotta know who you are so that you don't let other people try to tell you who you are. And I think for me, it definitely helped having, you know, parents who spoke that over me. So for those who are listening who are parents, just the encouragement that you give your children, the words you speak over them matters so much.

Mm-hmm.

Just the words of life. I mean, we're told in scripture that we have the opportunity to speak life or death, like life or death is in the power of the tongue. And so, what you're speaking over yourself, what you're speaking over your children, what you're speaking over other people, there's so much power there. And my parents just did an amazing job of speaking so much life over us. And then, of course, you know, you're always faced with the crossroads moment of like, this is my parents' faith. What's my, like, what do I wanna believe?

That's good.

Who am I going to be? And that moment happened for me in college. And I just made the decision ultimately, you know, what is truth? Who is truth? I'm gonna choose to base my life on the truth of Jesus Christ. I've seen that I can chase success and money and algorithms and boys and all of these things, and I keep coming up empty and also full of shame. Or I can choose to build my life on Jesus Christ as the foundation and actually be satisfied and have so much peace and have so much joy. Not always because it's roses and rainbows, but because I know that this life isn't all that there is. I'm not living just for this life. I'm living for an eternal one. And so for me, that started in college and it's continued to grow. I'm still growing in it. It's continued to grow. But it always comes back to that for me of like, what do I want most? Whether it's like, you know, a health and wellness goal or whether it's a financial goal or whether it's a relational goal, So being able to ask myself that question always comes back to what does God's word say?

Yeah.

And, you know, what is the foundation of truth? Like, if I'm gonna stay true to my goals, if I'm gonna stay true to my values, if I'm gonna stay true to my convictions, well, what is truth? Like, what is my foundation of truth? And I just think so many people, we don't have the answer to that question.

Yeah.

And so then we're just following whatever reel we see on social media, whatever ad pops up, or whatever the people around us are doing. But asking yourself that question, I just challenge everyone who's watching and listening, what is truth? That was the question Pilate asked Jesus in John chapter 18. He looked at Jesus and says, what is truth? And it's hilarious because truth was staring right at him because Jesus says in John 14, Yeah, wow. I'm the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. And for me, building my life on that truth has changed everything, 'cause I've seen it all, you know, I've seen I've seen the people who have everything that this life can bring you, and I've seen the people who have nothing that this life can bring you. And what I've seen is those who have their life built on the truth of Jesus Christ, they're the ones who have peace and hope and love.

Yeah.

And the ones who don't have their life built on Jesus Christ, they're chasing the things of this world, hoping they'll find peace, love, joy, and they still keep coming up You know, I love that answer, especially the way you wrapped it up in the end, because that's kind of what I—

when I think back as a kid, and even more so like in college and post-grad, I started seeing certain men and women and I thought, you know, to your point, oh, they're hopeful. Oh, they're a good leader. Oh, they've got great wisdom. They have this sort of sense of, you know, when you get around like somebody who is oftentimes it's a pastor or a priest or somebody, and they have this sort of level of just serenity and wisdom and calmness and even just, you know, and I remember just thinking like, that's like, I want that, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And all those people were Christians and they were the most devout Christians. And, and that's part of, I think, what led me to already, you know, growing up in a Christian home, but also saying these are people that are thriving, that are, uh, you know, super high character people. And that's That's what I want.

Yeah. Amen. Amen.

Yeah. You know, one of the things I know you've talked about, and I think that's really important, it's interesting because I think in different maybe areas of Christianity, it's looked at a little differently or maybe talked about a lot or not talked about at all, is spiritual warfare and knowing that, hey, Satan comes to steal, kill, destroy, deceive, lie. And, you know, I'm curious at sort of what your perspective is on that and what value to place on that. How important it is for people and Christians to understand that's happening. Is that something you've experienced? How do you fight that?

Absolutely. I believe that the enemy attacks because he's threatened. And so anybody that, you know, feels a spiritual weight right now and has been experiencing spiritual warfare, that's good. I would say you should be almost like more alarmed if you're not experiencing any sort of spiritual warfare, because maybe there's more that, you know, you could be doing with your life and more you could be doing with the kingdom. of God and sharing that with other people. But, you know, for me, when I think about just that we have a very real God, but we also have a very real enemy that comes to steal, kill, and destroy, I think back all the way to the Garden of Eden.

Mm-hmm.

Because the enemy in, you know, the Garden of Eden, he shows up to Adam and Eve. And I think it's interesting that it's in the form of food is kind of how the first temptation happens all around that. But it's interesting because he shows up and he asks the very first question ever in scripture. And he says, really say? And it's really this, can you distort who God is?

Mm-hmm.

Like, let me make you question God's goodness. Let me make you question God's truth. Let me make you feel that God is withholding something from you. And so that's kind of how he comes into the picture, and he comes up to Eve, and he kind of, did God really say that? And then his next line is, you know, oh no, if you eat that fruit, you won't really die, kind of downplaying sin, you know, the seriousness of sin, And then ultimately leading to, you know, no, actually, if you eat this fruit, you'll be like God. You can be your own god. You don't have to wait on God. You can just take your life into your own hands and find everything you want in this world. There is now an advantage to rebelling against God and falling into sin. And so this is how the enemy kind of works. But what I think is so interesting is Eve's response as she gives into Satan's trickery. And it says that she saw that the fruit was good, you know, good for food, which means it satisfied a craving, kind of that fleshly, bodily desire. Pleasing to the eye. She saw this is something I want and I don't have. And so now I'm coveting it. I want it. I've gotta have it. And then lastly, she saw that it would, you know, make her wise, that she would know good and evil. She would, you know, she desired just gaining this wisdom, kind of being like God, being powerful like God. And 1 John 2 talks about this exact same thing. And he talks about how everything in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life doesn't come from the Father, but comes from the world. And you see kind of from the beginning of the Bible to really the end of the Bible, you know, 1 John 2 is one of the last books in the Bible. Satan runs the same play again and again and again and again.

That's right.

And he comes after those same 3 things. And so one of the biggest things, the lust of the flesh, I do believe is, is anything bodily, whether that's food, whether that's, you know, sex and sexual pleasures, anything kind of in that. But it's this like target with pleasure and trying to get you to chase pleasure instead of chasing God's presence. And then, you know, the lust of the eyes is this like materialistic covet, like I gotta have it.

Yeah.

And then the pride of life, like so many of us, we want to be important, we wanna be relevant, we wanna be powerful. And those are the same 3 temptations that the enemy comes after us today. And I've just seen that same thing in my own life. Every time I've fallen into sin and I've believed the enemy's lies, it's fallen under those same 3 temptations. But what I love is God is so much more powerful. And when we know the enemy's schemes, when we're aware of his schemes, Ephesians 6 says that we can stand firm against the devil's schemes. We can put on the armor of God.

That's right.

We can take our stand against him and we can win. Like the, the Lord has already overcome. But, you know, the enemy's still operating today until we're taken into full glory. And it's like, while we're here, we've been given winning weapons of how we can overcome, of how we can defeat these temptations and these lies and these schemes. And I think the biggest thing is that we have to understand, we've talked about kind of just like the spiritual realm, like we're not just bodies with spirits, we are actually spirits with temporary bodies.

Yeah.

Like we have a very temporary, short mist of a life here on this earth. But our spirits are eternal, they're forever. And so how you're, I think, thinking through, you know, this, okay, I'm getting in a fight with this person. Why do I keep getting in a fight with this person? Okay, I'm falling for this same, I said I wasn't gonna eat that again, and I eat that again. Or I said I was gonna do that, and I— And it's like, you have to understand it's a spiritual realm, and the enemy operates in a spiritual way. And for me, fighting that, you know, in the word of God, in prayer, with community, has helped so much.

That's so powerful. I'd never heard anybody break down as well as you just did sort of these, the temptation that Eve had and how it just so aligns with, you know, the, you know, the, our unhealthy desires, our sinful desires that we can have. And, you know, and I think there is such value in education. This is why reading scripture is so important. It's why not only going to church is so important, but Bible study and just being really biblically literate. literate in understanding what the Bible teaches and how to apply it. Because, I mean, so much of the Bible is taken out of context, is misused. And so I think when you really understand, and then you can actually utilize, you know, God's word in that way, I mean, it's incredibly, incredibly powerful.

Totally. Because I think so often we just get hit, you know, with these darts, you know, we get hit with these lies, and then we just don't know how to respond. Or it's just like, you feel hopeless, or you feel you know, oppressed, or you just feel kind of like this is just like how it is or how it's always going to be. And it's like, no, as believers, we can walk in victory because we're not fighting for victory. We're fighting from victory. We've already received the victory in Christ.

Yeah.

And so we've been given these, you know, weapons and these, you know, we don't fight with the weapons the world uses. Like what I was saying earlier, like we have these weapons that demolish the lies and demolish the strongholds and demolish the, you know, generational curses and these things like we've been given in the word of truth. And so, like you're saying, I think scripture has, it's helped me so much because every time a lie comes and you see, you know, we talked about the Garden of Eden and then I talked about 1 John 2, but also the enemy came to Jesus in the same exact way in Matthew 4 within the, you know, temptation in the wilderness. And Jesus responded to every single lie and temptation with the truth, with God's word.

Yeah, yeah.

And he just said, it is written. So he didn't debate the devil, he just responded with truth. And so I'm like, that's where we just gotta, we gotta know the truth and we gotta be in the truth and we gotta share the truth. So important.

You know, Chelsea and I are kind of making this decision on, or, you know, made the decision on, you know, what school do we send our child to? And by the way, I know everybody, and I just wanna preface it and say everybody's in a different financial situation. I think the main responsibility is on the parents to educate the children in a godly way. But, you know, I was talking to Chelsea and I were talking about, we were just very, very adamant about sending our child to a Christian school. And like my mom, we did not have much money growing up. My dad worked out, on telephone pole lines, repairing them in Ohio. And my mom would teach part-time. She actually taught part-time at a Christian school so we could go to the Christian school. So like my family were, they were just, I mean, again, my parents just sacrificed a lot.

Yeah.

So myself and my siblings could go to a Christian school. And I was talking about some of this the other day who they just finished their PhD at Liberty in psychology. And he just said it was such a different education than what he had at Vanderbilt because, you know, you go to this school and he said, said, you know, everything Christianity thought, Christian thought was woven into. And so some getting an education that is Christian, where Christianity is woven into every part of it and that understanding versus worldly, it's just radically different. I don't know my point with that, but my point was like, we're, you know, it's so, I mean, you know, that's huge. You're gonna learn, you're gonna find this out soon.

Yeah.

I mean, when I grew up, there was one public school, one Christian school in a small town in Troy, Ohio.

Yeah.

Here there are like a, there's so many options.

So many options.

and options. And schools and options.

So it's like— But thinking through that is so important because so often it's like, I want my child to go, you know, where all their other friends are, where the sports are gonna be really good. And thinking through it in a different lens of how is their character gonna be formed and who's gonna be pouring into them spiritually and is there a biblical foundation? All of that is so important.

Yeah, it was interesting. The reason, what turned us onto this school was we have cousins in Knoxville. They were playing basketball here at this school in Nashville. And so we went to go watch. And, um, one player on the other team got injured and literally everyone from their team, they, they, they, they put a circle, you know, they got in a circle around him, held hands, and the coaches all prayed for him.

Hmm.

On, on the court. And we're like, wow, this is just an amazing thing that just the way that they were living it out. So anyways, all that being said, I think that, you know, uh, I, I just, I think that something to go back to that we talked about at the start, um, if people wanna grow, if they wanna overcome anxiousness, if they wanna be successful, if they wanna be happy, just your community's so important.

Mm-hmm.

school, the friend— the friendships you have, your growth groups. Like, my biggest life lesson is you become who you surround yourself with.

Absolutely.

And so like, I'm semi-obsessive about like, you know, finding the right people, connecting with the right people, doing that because I just find myself starting to act like them, think like them. And, um, and, you know, something else I hear pretty often, and I hear this from a lot of young people, and I had the same challenge, is they'll say, you know, I want a mentor, but I don't know where to find one. Have you heard or experienced that?

Oh, totally.

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Oh, and I was literally sitting here telling you that I wanted your mother-in-law to be my mentor because she's amazing.

Yeah, she's awesome.

And I have so seen that for a lot of people that I know and even my own self. And I do think, you know, the environment that you put yourself in really matters. Like same for, you know, the single person who wants to find your spouse or the person who's feeling lonely and wants to find community, putting yourself in the environments in which you are setting yourself up for success, really matters. And so, of course, like the first place that I can think of is church. You know, I have—

Yeah.

You know, a friend who literally just walked up to someone at her church and said, will you be my mentor? And I know so many people that that is their story. And then I know so many people who don't have mentors because they don't have the courage to go ask. And I do think it starts with putting yourself in that environment and then also just taking that leap of faith and asking, like straight up asking. I think so often it's kind of like, wanna go to coffee, like, wanna hang out? But I think straight up being like, will you be my mentor? I would love to be, I would love to learn from you. I would love to just watch your life and ask you questions and to truly be mentored in that way. And then, you know, if you go to coffee or lunch, like, come with some questions.

That's right.

Ask them some questions. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes it's just kind of like, hey, I just want you to pour into me. And it's like, no, no, no, like, show up, like, be hungry, you know, be, be wanting, like, be in this place where you want to learn and show up How can I show up in a way where it shows, like, I'm not, I don't want you to waste your time in any way. I wanna learn from you in every way. And so I've thought about this and I've written out some questions. And so taking the time to be intentional in that way also I think is really helpful.

You know, I've had the opportunity to both just have some unbelievable mentors. In fact, I mean, the prayer that I prayed, I shared this with Michael W. Smith, he was on last week. And I said, I prayed in college that God would send a flood of Christian men into my life, 'cause I didn't have any. Like, I went to college and it was like, well, where are all are the Christian men? they? And he just did that. And so then I've had that opportunity to do that for other men. And one thing I will say is that if I've had, I don't know, 25 men that I've really over the past 10 years poured into or had an opportunity, maybe it's quite a bit of time or a little bit of time, there's probably, I mean, it's probably only 20% though that really take it and run with it. There's another that do a few things and there's some that they just don't do anything, you know? And, and I think for myself, it— those people, those 5 out of 25 that really went and said, I'm going to take to heart what you said, I'm going to really value this gift, this mentorship you've given me, and they've gone and applied it and done it and said, thank you, I'm grateful, here's my next set of questions. I just want to keep pouring into those people, you know?

Totally.

And so I think if you're going to find a mentor, also be an amazing disciple.

Yeah. That's so good. That's so true. It's contagious. You're like, you walk away from those people and you're like, well, now I wanna go, you know, be that for someone. You know, it's just a very contagious spirit to have. And I think that's just a good, I think about Matthew 5:6 where it says, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. It's a promise. When we hunger and thirst for more of God, we will be filled with more of God. And so when, whether that's in the form of godly community or mentorship or whatever it may be, but coming, you know, showing up hungry and saying like, I wanna learn more, I wanna know more, And so I'm gonna watch your life, I'm gonna ask you questions, but also, you know, on the flip side, you know, being someone who's willing to also invest in someone and be someone who seeks someone out to pour into them and to love on them in that way too is awesome.

Who are some people, maybe from afar, they could be maybe known to the public or not known, but that you really admire and you could say, hey, I'm trying to model part of my life after this person? person?

Yeah, for me, since college, it was always Christine Caine. She was always someone I really looked up to. I think from the way she had such a, just like she told the truth, like she spoke the truth and she spoke it boldly. Lisa Bevere falls into this category as well. Just speaking the truth so boldly. And then I would say also, she just is someone who has such a heart to like make a difference for those who, I mean, have been abused and who have been, you know, mistreated. And so fighting for the voiceless, fighting for those who can't speak up for themselves. And so I just see, like, when I read scripture, I'm like, yeah, like, she has modeled her life after so many of these verses that I've read. Like, she stands firm in the Word of God. She speaks the Word of God unashamedly. Like, you can tell she's spent deep, deep time in prayer alone with the Father. But you also see, like, she's, you know, not just going to all these big Christian conferences. Like, Like, she's traveling all over to like help set the captives free.

Yeah.

And to, you know, bring good news to the poor. And just like these beautiful things that I think so often it's easy to just focus on one. But I've always admired that she's had, you know, a heart and a capacity to do both, as well as being a wife and a mom and all the other things that she does as well. So she's definitely someone I've really looked up to. And then my parents have always kind of played that role for me in different ways, as well. And then God is, is really, I mean, similar to you of praying that prayer, God has been so kind to put so many incredible, like, women in my life of just that model those different things, or even friends that demonstrate different aspects of God's character that I just get to learn from. Or, you know, in this season of my life, being a new mom and getting to have friends around me that have kids that are older, you know, than my sweet little Hosanna, getting to watch them parent.

Yeah.

parent and discipline and love and raise their children up in the way that they should go is so inspiring. And I feel like I'm learning so much from them and gleaning so much wisdom from them. And so I think praying that prayer is a great start. Um, but yeah, there's people that have kind of been like from afar an inspiration to me, but also people up close.

That's so good. You know, I, uh, I don't know Christine, but I've really, again, really admired her. I think she's coming on here in a few months on the show, and I'm just really looking forward to, because again, I, I love how bold she is in her faith. And then John and Lisa Verveer, I just love them.

They're amazing.

I mean, they are so amazing. They're one of those couples where I look at their marriage and I'm just like, it's so great. Like when they're interacting together, they're sort of like just a general, just a, just a, just a love there that's just really, really powerful. Like, uh, like adoring each other, complimenting each other, but they're both, but they're both a little feisty towards each other in that way. You know, the sort of Sicilian and Italian going at it. And I just, I love it. But I always, I always like watch relationships like that and I'm like, hey, what is it that, that they have that is just so, um, and that's just, you know, so profound? And it's just a mutual like love and respect, you know, in such a powerful way and constant open communication.

Yeah.

And, and, um, and there's, there's such great value. Like, I really feel for people that have maybe don't have those people in their lives because if I wasn't able to get glimpses of, um, people like John and Lisa Bavier, or even just have amazing parents myself, or Chelsea's parents. And it's just Chelsea's mom now, but seeing the way that her mom and dad interacted, that, that has taught me more than reading books, more taught me more than anything about, hey, here's how to have a great relationship.

Totally. Are there—

what have you learned from your mom and dad? And also, what have you learned, like, has anything— so this is 2 questions. Well, let me first ask that, and then I'll ask the next one. What have you learned from your mom and dad or other great marriages that you and Grant are trying to model?

Hmm.

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They're this beautiful balance of love and truth.

Right.

They do such a great job of, like, my mom is just so full of compassion and love, and it bleeds into every aspect of her life. And she's so moved by just like loving people. And my dad is so passionate about truth and, you know, standing firm in truth and speaking the truth. truth. Um, and so I've just seen them kind of like the, just love and truth kind of like be this beautiful, um, just balance in the way that they parented. They also very much believed in parenting each of us differently. And so how they parented me was very different than how they parented my other 2 siblings, um, which I think is, is so beautiful. 'Cause I think it'd be so easy to just kind of copy paste, copy paste, copy paste.

Yeah.

Do the same exact thing. But they were very intentional to kind of love each of us us, you know, discipline each of us uniquely and, um, intentionally. And I'm very grateful for that. Um, I do think, again, like the words that they spoke over us, but also the way that they modeled. I mean, they showed us not just, hey, you should pray, but they showed us how to pray.

Yes.

They showed us, you know, not just you should go to church, but we went to church. They showed us not just you should go and consume church, they showed us we're going to go and serve at church. We're going to be a part of the church. We're going to give to the church. We're going We're gonna tithe, we're going to show up and serve, we're going to go on the mission trips with the church. And so we were just very integrated from a young age in all those aspects, as well as, you know, I grew up with my dad as a coach. And so I was also very ingrained into just like sports and athletics and basketball life. And so if I wasn't at church or church camp, I was in the basketball gym. And so that was kind of my life. But they just did such a great job of just like disciplines and hard work and the truth, as well seeing people, loving people, showing up for others, serving others. And so they did a really good job of complementing each other in that way and kind of giving that to my sisters and I.

That's so good. What's the biggest thing that surprised you about marriage?

Oh, wow. There's so many. Our first year of marriage was really hard. I think we both came into it not realizing how selfish we were.

Oh, by the way, you took mine. I mean, I was just gonna say, I constantly, the first couple years, I'm like, I'm so selfish. Like, I only think about myself.

Yes. It's crazy. You think you've like worked all that out. You know, I thought I was coming into marriage like, he has no idea what kind of treat he's getting. And then immediately, I'm like, all of these things start rising up in me. And, you know, this anger I thought, you know, I'd already dealt with, or this, you know, whatever it is that just kind of gets exposed and gets brought up to the surface. So, I would say that was definitely something we just had. And still, I mean, you always have to work through, I guess, you know, your self-worth, selfishness. But especially that first year of marriage, I wasn't prepared for the amount of just like worldly expectations and also selfishness that we both had and had to work through. And I was just like the typical cliché, you know, wife hitting her knees in prayer saying, God, change my husband. And, you know, a few days into praying that prayer, it quickly went to God, change my husband, to God, change me. Like, I see there's so much in me that needs to changed and pruned and worked on and made holy. And I just, it was a battle of that first year, learning to die to yourself. And I think for me, I just had treated dating and life as like, oh, he's gonna serve me, he's gonna show up for me. And just like, this is what I deserve, kind of just honestly, this like feministic kind of mindset. And I get into marriage and I'm like, whoa, like marriage is all about sacrifice. Marriage is—

Yeah.

Marriage is all about service.

Yeah.

Marriage is all about dying to self. I'm like, it's so the opposite of what the world paints. It's so the opposite of what the movies and Hollywood shows you. And so really, you know, asking yourself in marriage, in parenting, in life, like, have I been more discipled by the world than by the word? Because for me, in that first year of marriage, I realized, oh, like, I've been pretty discipled by the world in terms of marriage and what I think a marriage should look like. And so I had to really strip that back and really kind of relearn, okay, when it comes to intimacy, when it comes to romantic and serving each other and spending time together in all aspects of marriage and what makes up a marriage, kind of going to God's word and being like, what do you say about marriage? What is the point of marriage? Um, and getting to that point was so helpful.

That's so good. You know, one thing I changed my, my mind on, or it made me look at the— in a different way, is the golden rule, you know, because when we first got into marriage, I'm like, oh, well, I like this. So Chelsea will like this, like do unto others. Like, this is what I'm, this is what I'm doing.

Yeah.

And I, and I, and I realized it's like, oh no, her love language is quality time. You know, mine is like words of encouragement and physical touch. And so like, I always felt like, man, her love tank is never full. I'm like, I'm doing all this stuff over here. It's just never full. And then over time, I just, you know, started realizing it just takes deep Deep, meaningful, intimate conversation and listening. And oh, okay, well, that— and I started joking around. I'm like, does this count? Can you teach me what counts and what doesn't count?

100%.

So, you know, figuring that out. So it was—

No, that's a whole learned art. It's like learning how to love someone how they want to be loved and not how you want to be loved. It's like, oh, it's easy for me to love you how I want to receive love. But loving you how you are designed and wired to receive love, Oh yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I was talking to a friend, this was quite a few years ago. And I think he learned this, but he had been, they had been engaged for like 12 years.

Oh wow.

That's a long time.

Versus our 3 months. I'm like, he would've looked at us like we were crazy.

By the way, that's the way to go.

Chelsea and I were 6 months, we dated 6 months, engaged 6 months. But no, the whole time I'm like, we gotta, you know, this has to be a shorter timeline. But yeah, I was, and he told me, he goes, you know, I said, said, hey, why have you not married her yet? And he said, you know, I just realized she just doesn't always make me happy. I mean, that was the, that was the answer.

Yeah, yeah. And when you don't know what the heart and the why behind marriage is, I mean, you're gonna, I feel like you're gonna keep coming back to that place of like, I just want to be happy. I just want my needs to be met. But when I read scripture, I'm like, man, it just zooms it all out of this is, we're a part of something so much bigger than ourselves. This marriage isn't just about us. It's not about making each other happy. It's not about us sitting around figuring out how we can find the 5 principles to thrive in our marriage. It's like, no, no, no. Like, this is about eternity. This is about the kingdom. This is a reflection of Christ and the church. Like, this is all about pointing other people to him. And if we don't have that eternal mindset in our marriage, it's gonna be so easy to make it about my own selfish desires and happiness. And that, again, that was like the one of the biggest wake-up calls for me that first year of marriage. 'Cause I was like, wait, it's not about my happiness? You're not just here to serve me all the time? It's like, oh wow, it is about service, but it's also so much more than about us. Like, it's about Jesus.

Yeah, it's so good. So, you know, one of the things I also learned in marriage is that generally speaking, I think women battle things different than men battle. Like, I think men, the biggest thing they want to do is feel, and we've heard this before, but like want to feel respected. And so there's this sort of like respect off between maybe men and then men. I just don't think they think they— I just don't think about things that much, you know? And one thing I realized with Chelsea is, and she shared this with me, is she said, you know, for her, um, and she would say that she does, she feels like it's less of a battle now, but she definitely felt like it was a comparison, you know? And to your point, you talked about this earlier, especially with social media.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and looking at people that have have perfect bodies, perfect marriages, perfect lives. To your point, some of these people, it's like, oh, when you're throwing a kid's birthday party, I'm like, was that like $100,000 for a kid's birthday party? Am I a good mom? So, so all that being said, how do you battle criticism? And is that something you've noticed? Like, this is something women struggle with more, more than men? Yeah, potentially.

I think for me, when it comes to kind of this comparison trap and falling into, you know, she's got this and they've got this, And for me, it is gonna ultimately come down to like, who does God say that I am? And am I, do I believe that that is who I am? Like, it's one thing for God to just say that. It's another thing for me to believe that and receive that. And so if God says that I am his child, if God says that I'm made in his image, if God says that he has put a specific calling in my life and given me a specific gift that isn't like everybody else's, But the gift I've received isn't just for me, it's to serve other people. And kind of getting to that place of like, who does God say that I am? Who do I say that God is? 'Cause I'm not gonna know who I am if I don't know who he is. And so making sure he stays in his proper, you know, place and I have the right view of who he is. 'Cause I think sometimes we can have a distorted view of who we are if we fall into this distorted view of who God is.

Yeah.

And so if we think, you know, God is this unfair God who's just like waiting for us to screw up, then we're probably gonna feel like we can never do enough.

Mm-hmm.

We're just constantly striving, we're constantly performing, we're constantly, you know, if God is, it's so, it just, I think you have to get to this place of who is God? Who am I? Who does he say that I am? And then there's like some practical things around that, right? Of just like, how do I set up boundaries as much that I can to not continually set myself up for failure? And so for me, one of the biggest things that I've made a decision on this year is to delete social media.

Wow.

I am off Instagram right now, and have been off for the last 6 or 7 months on my personal page. My podcast page is still running, but I've been off social media. And that has been one of the biggest blessings in my life.

Yeah.

Because I am not constantly seeing what everyone else has. If you think about, I shared earlier, the Garden of Eden, when Eve saw that the fruit was pleasing to the eye, and she had this coveting moment. Again, it's the same temptation we face today.

today.

We get on social media, we covet what everybody else has, we envy what everybody else has.

Yeah.

We compare ourselves to what everybody else has, who they are, what they're doing. And immediately, your, you know, gifts no longer feel good enough. Your body no longer feels good enough. Your marriage no longer feels good enough. And it begins to target all of these things as you begin to covet, as you begin to envy. And so, for me, it was, you know, practically, it's like Jesus says, if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. If your hand causes you to sin, cut And so, whatever that thing is that you need to cut off—

If your phone causes you to sin.

Yeah, if your phone causes you to sin, flush it down the toilet. Like, whatever you gotta do, get a flip phone, you know, delete social media. I mean, it sounds extreme, but it's like, if you are living in a perpetual state of like crippling comparison, and all you can think about is, I don't feel good enough because I'm always thinking about what they have and who they are and what they're doing, then I can't be who God's called me to be. I can't show up for the people around me the way God's called me to. And so, for me, it was, you know, I was hitting, not all the time, but I was hitting these moments of, I couldn't fully appreciate, you know, the way God had wired me because I was focused on the way God had wired them. I couldn't fully appreciate the platform and influence God had given me because I was focused on the platform and influence God had given them. I couldn't fully appreciate the friends and community in my life 'cause I was constantly focusing on the vacations and the friend trips that everybody else was going on. And so, for me, it just came down to this place of, I'm gonna remove this from my life and, you know, for a season. And that doesn't mean I'm gonna always be off social media. I'm sure I'll get back on. But when I do, I'm gonna set up some boundaries. You know, whether it's I only allow myself to get on for 30 minutes a day, whether it's I only allow myself to get on a few times a week, whether it's I have a Sunday off, a Sabbath day, whatever it is, like putting some boundaries around kind of those stumbling areas for you. Yeah, that's good. Like, where do you find yourself comparing and falling into comparison? Is it when you watch certain rom-coms and then you suddenly feel like your marriage isn't good enough? Well, then cut out the rom-coms. Is it you get on social media and you feel this when you see, so, you know, but I do think that ultimately it is a heart problem and you do have to get to a place where it, 'cause if, even if you remove those things, you're still living life. So you're still gonna find yourself in environments where you're around someone who's really beautiful, you're around someone who's really gifted, you're around someone who's, and if you aren't caught, confident in who God is and in who you are in God, then it is ultimately going to just arise in a different place. You were kind of talking about earlier, like getting to the root. It's like, yeah, if I'm just picking off the fruits and I'm never getting to the root, then it's just gonna blossom and bloom in a different way, right? Like I can cut off like comparison and social media, but if I don't get to the root problem, Yeah. if I don't get to the heart, then that's gonna just show up in another area of my life.

Yeah. Well, you know, and I think it comes down to something you said, and it reminds me of an A.W. Tozer quote. And he said something that I may not get this exactly right, but what you believe about God is the most important thing about you. And it's like, whoa, the most important thing about us is what we believe about God and who he is.

So true.

And it's like, wow. Because if you believe that God is a perfect Father and he gave you unique gifts, and then it's like, well, you just need to take your unique gifts and use them well. Well, and just because somebody else has a different gift and they're maybe using it in a different way or more successful in some area, that doesn't mean that you're failing, right? And so I think there's this element of, uh, being able to fix your eyes on Jesus, trust him, do your best with what you've been given. And, um, and, and, you know, but, but, and I do want to say this, I actually think there is value in comparing yourself to others. others with the right heart.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Because I think about the world's best athletes, they will tell you, oh, I swim faster or did this faster or did this better. Totally.

Because of iron sharpens iron.

Yeah.

Because of that principle.

I was watching this video, so it's my, our, our daughter did her first competitive thing ever. She's 6 years old and did the summer swim league this summer.

I love it.

And did great. And Chelsea and I are both like worried about each other from the standpoint of, I'm like, are you looking up the scores of all the other kids? And like, and like tracking everything? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, so am I. So we are diehard and we're going to do our best just to also just let her flourish and have fun and do all those things. But I had it show up on my feed and I'm actually rarely on social media now, but I was on Instagram and Missy Franklin, she's a well-known swimmer, showed up on my feed of her cheering for her teammates.

Mm-hmm.

And cheering for somebody who's breaking the world record. And it was really inspiring because— and I think, by the way, it like shocked everybody, had millions and millions of views because she was so happy for this person. She was cheering for them probably more than she would cheer for herself and be happier for this person more than it would be herself. And I think it was so shocking and so many millions of people would watch it because that's so rare.

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Oh, and I feel like it so shows that she is a truly confident person in who she is and how she's wired, because I feel like that's such an easy— one way to point to confidence is, can you celebrate other people's wins? Can you celebrate other people's success? Because it's really easy. It's very easy to celebrate someone's success if it has no tie to you or anything that involves you or anything that you're passionate about. Like, for example, if I was, you know, celebrating someone who is incredibly gifted at, um, let's try and, uh, like, you know, making beautiful blankets, and they just are so good at, you know, getting some yarn and just going to town, and I am like, that is so impressive. Like, that's amazing. But now it might be harder for me to celebrate someone who is, you know, a podcaster or a speaker, right? And they're super successful, and they have this incredible— but, but I can celebrate, you know, my girl who just sold a million blankets, because I'm so happy for her. But it's harder for me to celebrate, you know, my friend over here who just got a million extra subscribers and followers, you know, and it's, it's, you have to, again, it's the heart, but it is, I think that's what's so cool about that story is being able to celebrate someone who's in your same lane, who's kind of running in your same lane and being able to cheer them on. And that really just shows like, I know, you know, that I'm confident and that I'm doing what I'm called to do. And it doesn't diminish or take away from who I am by celebrating other people. It actually shows that I'm confident in who I am.

Yeah, it's powerful. You know, a related topic to comparison, I think, and your answer might be very similar, But it's criticism. I know that when I first started, um, putting out content, I mean, I would start reading the YouTube comments and of course there'd be some nice ones, but then also I was like, whoa, that is ruthless. It's horrible out there. And so over time I realized, you know what, I'm not gonna like read and focus in on those comments. I, I was able to decide maybe, you know, early on and better than maybe some people would just be like, I'm gonna just embrace these, you know, these, but I am gonna sometimes look at some of the criticism and say, is there truth in that? Did I, you know, am I being as credible as I can? Am I being as fair as I can be? And looking at things that way, but I'm curious in terms of, I mean, I'm sure you got just from being on such a large televised, you know, show, like criticism.

Oh, yes. Lots of it. Lots and lots and lots of it. You know, and from the very beginning, and it was very, very hard. And I think that is what really led to kind of this like stress response in my body negatively responding to a lot of this criticism, feeling so misunderstood, feeling so just like, man, I can't even advocate for myself. And really like having to come back to this place of like, God, you're my defender, you're my protector, you're my advocate. And I think that has been one of my biggest like things that I've leaned on. But it's definitely been difficult. I mean, even, you know, to this day I tell my team or I tell my friends like, hey, if you see see viral videos of me, you know, around and someone's just dogging on me, I really don't care to know.

Yeah.

I really, I really don't care to know. If you see it, why don't you just pray for that person? And you don't even have to let me know. You, you just pray for them. And I think for me, it did start out where I would, you know, I would read some of the comments and things. And then I just learned like, it's not good for me to know all of the amazing things said about me, as well as it's not good for me to know all of the horrible things said about me. We were never made to probably be as praised and criticized as we are in today's world, in this social media world. And I think from a spiritual lens, it just all lines up with scripture too, of just like, if they hated me, they're gonna hate you. Jesus says, you know, blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, you know, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. And just again and again throughout scripture, you see it's just kind of part of it when you're speaking out, you know, in a truthful, Jesus-centered way.

Yeah.

But also, it's just the world. Like, I look at people who aren't believers at all, and They're like, everyone's praising them one day and they're at like the top of their game. Everyone's obsessed with them. And then 2 days later they're doing something cringey and everyone turns on them. And, oh yeah, you know, it's, it's just a crazy world we live in.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I don't know why this reminds me. So, I mean, I got plenty of criticism. I remember Chelsea and I, we were down in 38. We posted a picture of us just going on a date night and Chelsea was wearing something absolutely appropriate. Some might mock, but like the dress was down to here, showing a little bit of knee. And there was like some old, like I have some really like, there was a handful of like ultra, ultra conservative Christians. And they're like, your dress should be like what, you know, getting into it, like with like commenting on my wife online. First, I'm sorry, I have a sister, Chelsea's sister, younger sister, just, you know, anyway, she's good with words. She went on there and gave them a lashing. Gave a few words. And it reminds me of like, I've got my 2-year-old and 6-year-old. My 2-year-old just adores the 6-year-old, like 2-year-old daughter is just like, anyways. And that's another thing I'll say about having like a good marriage or good Christian friends is like, you know, they're always defending you, fighting for you, going out of their way to help you. And, um, it's so powerful. Last question for what are your and Grant's health habits?

Hmm.

Something we try to be very intentional about is the food that we're eating, um, trying to eat whole foods, trying to cook a lot of our food. That does get challenging in travel, that gets challenging in, you know, some different seasons of life. But for the most part, we really try to, to cook a lot and to, I mean, we just went to the longevity clinic, and we did learn we needed to eat some more salmon. So we're trying to add some more of that in our, you know, in our recipes. And I am getting better at that. I'm learning some good salmon recipes.

Wow, awesome.

Which is, which is really fun. But yeah, so we try to, try to eat as healthy as possible. I I kind of, I kind of do this, the 70/30 rule. I'm such a sweet tooth. So, you know, like that, that's really where it's like, you know, every now and then some. But I have found like what I really love doing is when you talk about like the healthy alternatives, like I love finding like the healthier ice cream versions, you know, the healthier, whatever it may be version. And so that's what I try to do. We try to stay active and work out very consistently. So I have, you know, some We have a few workouts, Pilates studios here that I go to a few times a week. We have an at-home gym and try to stay active there. We try to spend a lot of time outside and take our sweet little Hosanna outside a lot. And I think just the vitamin D, getting in the grass, running around outside, it is hard when it's so hot outside, when it's like 100 and something degrees outside.

Yeah.

And you don't have a pool, it's like a little less motivating. But we do try to do those things. I think those, and then we're very consistent with praying with each other every single day. prays over me, us, every single night before we go to bed.

Wow.

Um, we even try to do communion. Like, one thing we would love to be even more intentional about is like a weekly communion moment and just like taking some time to, you know, remember God's sacrifice, Jesus's sacrifice, and take the body and take the, you know, the, the blood and just have that moment of just like, it's just so beautiful in doing it, of course, like alone, but especially in doing it like with your spouse. There's just There's something so powerful about it. And so, we love that. And then, I just would say, like, doing life with community and making sure that we're, you know, staying in relationship with other people. It can be easy, I think, sometimes to even just, like, fall into this rut of, like, especially when you have a life where you're traveling or you're doing some things where you're, like, filming or whatever it may be.

Yeah.

Then you get home and you kind of wanna just, like, oh, like, let's just relax. turn off. And something we try to be very intentional about is just making sure we're still hosting, we're still going out and spending time with people, we're, you know, being active with people and seeing other people and kind of not just like locking in with the 3 of us right now. Um, and that's something I have seen too with like the families that I look up to and the parents that I look up to with how they raise their kids is just constantly putting them in environments with other kids and—

Yeah.

Letting them play, letting them be active and letting them form those relationships. Um, and it just be like their family all the time.

Yeah.

So yeah, those would be some things that I would say. Read the word, pray. I mean, there's so many I could say, but those would probably be some of the ones.

Well, so good. It's really, really, uh, you know, holistic. It's focusing on, you know, spiritual health, you know, mental, and then also, you know, physical. And I think that's what it takes to be healthy. You know, I think that there's a lot of people who, just to go back to where we started, they're trying to fight sometimes even spiritual battles with food and diet, and they won't see the breakthrough. And it's like, man, it is so important. And I really think the foundation that's greater than the physical of course, is the spiritual in terms of making sure that you are connected to God, connected to community, and also connected to nature in order to get healthy.

Amen.

This has been amazing. Thanks so much for coming on today. I know you've got a book out, Dare to Be True. I wanna encourage everybody to check it out. It's on Amazon, bookstores nationwide, Dare to Be True by Maddie Pruitt Trout. I wanna encourage you guys to check it out. Also, if you're watching on YouTube, let me know what'd you learn today? What is the biggest thing that Maddie shared today that you can walk away with? How did you deal with comparison, criticism?

How'd you fight it?

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