10 Things High-Achievers NEED to Understand on the Path to Success | Jon Acuff

I think we sometimes say tomorrow me will be so productive. And I would just say like, well, what is, what about today you? And I think about that sometimes. Another way I say it is like, I want to hook up future me. I'm constantly trying to think about how do I hook up future me and future me can be tomorrow me. So that can mean I do these 3 projects today and not put them off to tomorrow. Cause I don't want to screw tomorrow me. It can mean I go to bed on time because morning me is going to be screwed. Like we've all had that experience where you wake up and you're like, stupid evening me got so cocky and stayed up till 1:00 AM and like, oh, screwed my morning. It's like, eh, sorry. So like, it can mean, you know, saving for your retirement. Like, I want 60 me to be like, man, I'm so glad that when you were 47, you did these things. Like, thanks for doing sucky stuff you didn't want to do financially at 47, even though it wasn't fun, even though— so I think that's something I'd say too, is like, what would it look like for you to hook up next week you, or next year you, or next month you? 'Cause I think if you think about it that way, it changes how you approach today and makes you go, "No, I'm gonna make tomorrow really easy for me. I'm gonna love me enough to do the hard work today 'cause tomorrow me is gonna be grateful." Today we have Jon Acuff with us.

Jon is a 9x New York Times bestselling author. He's an expert in leadership, an expert in personal growth. We're gonna talk about goal setting today. We're gonna talk about, overcoming limiting beliefs, priorities, and a whole lot more. John, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Well, good. Well, I know you have a new book out that's all about setting goals and the importance of goals, but one thing I saw you recently speak on is overcoming limiting beliefs. I know you talked about 5 things specifically. What are some things that we all need to do to overcome limiting beliefs, and then how do we, we identify those?

Well, the easiest way to identify them— actually have something people can do in 30 seconds. It's very simple. All you have to do is write down a goal. Could be any goal. I want to start a podcast. I want to lose 10 pounds. I want to know my spouse better. I want to get my diploma. Write down a goal and then listen to your reaction. Listen to your internal reaction to the goal, because every reaction is an education. Your first thoughts are telling you what you really believe about yourself, about your abilities. So if your first thoughts are, who are you to do that? You could never do that. Somebody smarter has already done that. The last 10 diets failed. Why would this one work? They're negative or they're positive. You should do this. It's time to do this. You've got to go for it. So that's a really simple way to discover if you have what I call broken soundtracks. Soundtrack's just a phrase I use for repetitive thought. But if you want to start the first part of the process, all you have to do is write down a goal and then listen to your first thoughts.

I love it. It's so good. It's a, that's a different way than I've heard. I think anybody frame limiting beliefs, but it's important. It's, hey, you set a goal. You're going to start listing off the reasons you can't do it, or all the reasons why, yeah, we're going to hit that, or solutions to hit it faster. So good.

Oh, thanks, man.

Why should somebody write a book, in your opinion?

Well, I mean, I think you, number one, you benefit because it encourages you to grow, to kind of formulate an idea and go, oh, I do believe this, or let me test this. The way I write books is I find a problem I have, and then I go, can I figure out a solution for this? And then I work and I work and I work, and I test it, I test it. I always tell people, unless you test, it's a guess. So when somebody says, I want to run a I'll go, well, based on what? Based on like, and if you haven't tested it and gone, I ran for a month, here's what I found. Ooh, now I can increase it. Now I can— most of our goals are guesses and then guesses fail so easily. So I think one, you learn about yourself. Number two, you're able to serve other people. Like if you really say, if you really want to know something, teach it. And so like when you kind of, it forces you to simplify the idea, to boil the idea down. Um, and so like for me, I could tell you a thousand words about fear, or I could say fear gets a voice not evoked. Like, I've had to boil that down. What do I mean by that? It means I'm gonna listen to it. I don't ignore it, because if you don't get to be self-aware if you ignore your fears. I process them. Yeah, it has a voice, but it doesn't get a vote. It doesn't get to sit at the head of my table and go, you don't get to do this, John, here's what you're doing. Like, I don't give fear the gavel to say this is what my life's like. So that phrase though, I can boil that down because I've written on it, because I've talked about it. So it simplifies your thinking in a really beautiful way. Um, it takes you places you don't think you'll go. Every book ever written didn't start out exactly that way. Like, you grew during the process. And so you start out with a concept, and then by the time you get to the end of it, you're different, the concept is different. And then it's brave. And I think it's good to practice doing brave things. Yeah, I think it's, you know, because then when you're done, you have to tell people it's good. You have to talk about it a lot. You have to share about it a lot. I'll have people tell me, I don't want to be too self-promotional. I'll say, well, the next time, write a diary. Like, next time, put it on your nightstand. But if you're going to put it on a shelf, you got to talk about it. Like, and I'll, and I'll call people out. Sometimes people say, if only one life has changed, it was worth it. No, it wasn't. Books are very hard. If you only want to change one life, write an email to a friend. It takes 30 seconds. But if you're gonna be honest about this thing and be brave about this thing, like, it's going to challenge you and grow you. So you grow in the topic, but you grow in spirit too. You grow in heart too. So I think that's part of what's amazing about a book, is that it does allow you to grow. And then, dude, my favorite thing about a book, which I didn't know at the beginning, is when I get a foreign edition. So the publisher will go, hey, here's the Arabic edition of Soundtracks. Here's the German edition of Finish. Here's the Russian edition of Do Over. And somebody in another country that I might never visit, in a town I don't even know how to pronounce, a person I'll never meet is having their life changed because I was brave enough to put a message in a bottle and throw it out. So my thing is like, let's throw some bottles. Let's— we don't know what shores they're going to land on, but you know, they, they won't land on shores unless you throw them.

So I found something similar, you know, writing a book has helped me, uh, grow, express my thoughts, become an expert in an area. You know, another thing I, I think for a lot of people is they find it intimidating. And so I think, you know, writing articles can also be a way, or a blog, right? As a way of sort of baby stepping into that or doing a post, right? And making it, you know, picking a niche or a category and saying, I'm going to do a lot of posts about this. You know, I was recently, uh, talking with Rebecca Lyons and I, I think, you know, gave Rebecca, And she was talking about, they used to, a lot of people don't know this about them, but they used to be, uh, work for John Maxwell. So they graduated Liberty University.

Yeah.

Gabe was the right hand. Rebecca worked. And so she helped run John's filing system for writing books. And so, yeah. So, you know, he would have, anytime he was reading anything or doing anything, he would file away notes and she would go and amazing. Put 'em in the filing cabinet. Yeah. But she was just sharing today is no matter, it's like no matter what she's doing all day, she's. Writing a book in the way of she's saving this post, she's doing this, she's filing. Now she's not using the old metal filing cabinets, but she's got Word docs and things, you know, different things saved on her Instagram page for future book and that sort of thing. So sort of this idea of always be writing a book.

Yeah, the big thing there is, um, how you treat your ideas. So I don't believe in writer's block, I believe in idea bankruptcy. Like, I never sit down to a blank piece of paper without ideas. If you can't write a book, you're bankrupt from an idea perspective. So I'm very— I have a very dialed-in idea system. I'm not accidental with creativity. So I— and I teach this, like, I teach other people, here's how to have a creativity system versus I hope I find ideas today. I hope— like, I have a very deliberate system about that. And so that's the thing, is like, when you peel back the layer of somebody who's prolific, it's not accidental. They go, oh, you, you really want to nerd out with me? Here's what I do with ideas. Here's what I do with my diet. Here's what I do with my meals. Anybody that's at that level has a system and is deliberate. So it's the same with writing. And then as far as how you write, I always tell people, play to your strengths. Don't make an already difficult thing more difficult. So if you don't like writing but you want to write a book, but you're a great audio learner, go record yourself. Like, I tell pastors that all the time. They go, I don't know how to write a book. And I go, do you write 40 sermons a year? And they go, yeah. I'll say, well, I'm gonna blow your mind. You know how to write a book. Take those sermons, have them transcribed, work with somebody who's great at structuring a book, and there's a book in there. And so don't put this kind of preconceived notion of I have to sit in a cabin in the middle of the Pacific Northwest with a falcon and 10 hours of alone time. Like, no, that's too much pressure. Like, don't, don't put that pressure on something that's already pressurized. Go, how am I good at collecting ideas? How am I good at communicating ideas? When do I feel like I'm really good at giving friends advice? Amazing. Next time somebody asks you to coffee, list— like, record it, and the questions they're answering are probably a book you could write about. So there's so many different ways to back into it. But yeah, you have to take care of your ideas. That's so good.

You know, I found for myself coming up with ideas, and I'd be interested to hear from you. Like, I was at church on Sunday, and I feel like I have a lot of ideas come to me during praise and worship time. And so I've always got my notes out writing things down because I'm hearing something inspirational, something foundational. And I also think there's a level of sort of gratitude, and so my mind, I'm just more relaxed, more free. And so I found that. I also found when I'm having deep, you know, conversations with people, I found right afterwards it's like, oh wow, that was a good— those are some thoughts. And writing those down. And so, and the way that I try and think about writing a book too is starting at, where am I, where am I trying to bring people? Okay. Most people are here. Maybe I was here 5 years ago or 10 years ago. What did it take to get me to here? And I want to go to here. So what's, what, what is everything I would have to say? The steps of step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 to go from here to here and then write those out as if that were chapters.

Yeah. So for me, I, my version of that is I do 3 things. I find a personal connection. I have to be personally connected to the content. You can tell You know when an author has written a book with their hands but not their heart, and the advice is true, but it's just not real. The advice is true, it's not 3D, it's 2D, it's flat. So I find something in my own life that I— a personal connection. I want to live into more of my potential. And then I see, is there a need? Do other people need this? So I find that in a couple ways. One, I'll talk to a lot of people. I'll ask somebody at church. I'll listen to the conversations I'm having online. And then I'll do a study. So there's a PhD in town, Mike Peasley, he's a professor. We asked 3,000 people if they feel like they're living up to the potential, and 96% said no. So I'm not now guessing, I wonder if people feel like they're not living up to their potential. I have a study. The third thing I look for is, is there a spot for me in the marketplace? Has the thing already been overdone? And I'll go, okay, wow. So when I looked at potential books, a lot of them were fuzzy and holistic, but they didn't have practical, what do you do with this on a Tuesday advice. That's what I'm always aiming for. Like, I don't want to just get you inspired. I want to answer that question, Gregor, great, but in a busy life, what do I do with this? That's why, like, when an influencer who's 24 tells you to work 90 hours a week and run your business this way, you should go, is that person married? Is that person have kids? Is that person balanced? Like, is that— and if they're not those things, that's like getting painting advice from somebody who's really good at bass fishing. Like, you have such a different life. And so for me, once I have those three things, I go, oh, now it's something I can really write about. Now it's something where I have value. And then how I communicate it to people is figuring out what are their pain points, what are the things they— that are really going to help them, and how do I position in a way that's easy for them to say yes to the That's so good.

And that's something too, I, yeah, it's great to identify on social media because people will tell you, right, if you engage in the—

if you ask. And yeah, 100%. And so, and they'll tell you things you hadn't even thought about, and you'll go, oh, turns out 100 people can be really smart and they know things I don't know. So writing anything, any business you do, takes humility. Like, it takes the humility to admit you don't know everything and then go, but a lot of people know a lot of things, maybe I can go learn from them. A lot of, you know, Podcasts teach you, videos teach you, communities teach you. So you're always trying to gain new ideas that way too.

That's so good. One of the things I've heard you speak on, which I was so impressed with, is dreams. You know, I think that a lot of people today, and I think a lot of people are scared to go for it. They're actually, yeah, not, not only go for it, they're scared to just even dream in the first place. So talk to me about what, what that fear is about, why people should dream big, and then even how to go about it.

Well, the thing you have to understand, Josh, is the world isn't designed for you to succeed. It's designed for you to shop. So our entire world is just designed for you to shop. So people come up to me and they go, it's— I feel distracted lately. And I'll go, yeah, you should be. Distraction technology has scaled faster than your ability to focus. Right now there are 50, 60, 70,000 of the world's best developers who have ever lived, the best psychiatrists who have ever lived, whose main goal is your time. Their main goal is I want your time. So you're up against this massive machine that doesn't want you to do your goals. Netflix doesn't want you to get in shape. Um, Hulu doesn't want you to write a book. Dating apps don't want you to get married. If you get married, you break the dating apps algorithm. Their goal is you have 100 meaningless hookups. That's their goal because you stay a subscriber. They're not trying to help you have a long-term marriage. That's not their business model. So you first and foremost have to go, if the average American is watching 34 hours of TV a week right now, according to Nielsen, that time is taken from something else that matters. So it's so like, the first thing you should do is go, I know why it's hard to focus. I know why I feel afraid. There's a whole industry that doesn't want me to change, that doesn't want me to grow, that doesn't want me to stay connected to my family and my dreams. And so you're up against a huge, huge machine. And I think we sometimes forget that. We sometimes lose sight of that. And so the odds are stacked against you. Trump, you have a casino in your pocket. You have a literal casino in your pocket. My kids, we are on a road trip and one of them said, oh, I just got an ad on Instagram for this, this thing I wanted. And it hit me. I never saw a personalized ad my entire childhood. I never saw— I never got a pocket ad my entire childhood. So it would be so condescending for me to go, I don't know why this next generation is having a hard time with like credit card debt or why they're having a hard time staying on their goals. They're, they're up against different odds than I faced. That's just the reality. So that's part of it. And then the fear part of it is Often we just haven't seen somebody do it. Like we haven't, we don't even know if it's possible. Um, or we get inspired and try to do it too big right out of the gate and we doom ourselves to instant failure. So we get, I, in the book I talk about how we jump between the comfort zone and the chaos zone. And the comfort zone is no goals, no actions, no progress. The chaos zone is actually even more dangerous for high performers, which is too many goals, too many actions, no progress. And if you're watching this or listening to this, you're a high performer. And I know that. Yeah. Because low performers don't engage with content like this. Yeah. So where high performers struggle is they go from not doing anything to trying to do it all. So they go, I'm going to do yoga, I'm going to lose 10 pounds, I'm going to date my spouse, I'm going to write a book, I'm going to start a podcast all this weekend. And I go, oh. And so the problem with high performers is they're the rabbit in the Tortoise and the Hare story. They only have two speeds: nap or sprint. Like, that was the problem with the rabbit. He didn't have a middle gear. The turtle had a middle gear of little things at a time, little things at a time. I can't run tomorrow's miles today. Like, I can't. Like, I have to— like, I've done 508 miles this year running, and the crazy sucky thing about it was every one took me mile by mile. I couldn't binge any of them. Like, we live in a binge culture. Yeah, our entire culture is trying to teach us to binge stuff. You can't binge real progress. So like, learning consistency is part of it. So there's so many things like that where I think that's why people have a hard time with their dreams, is that they haven't been taught how to dream. They certainly haven't been taught the right system on how to dream, and they bounce between comfort and chaos. And that's why we say yo-yo diet in our country, because you're yo-yoing between not doing anything to weighing like grams of beans. Like, and you're going, and there's no, there's no real progress, there's no real consistency.

It's so good. I've never heard it framed like this, but it's so true. You know, I think that a lot of people give maybe younger millennials and Gen Z a hard time because, you know, you're, you're, you know, you're lazy, you're always on your phone, work ethic, all those things. But it is true that there are way more temptations. Yeah. The media and the culture generally is way more, in a way, dark. Like, I had this conversation, I bring this up on occasion, that like when you and I were growing up, like, I would bet you watched some of the same shows of, you know, I loved, uh, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

Sure, sure.

Saved by the Bell, you know, Family Matters, Step by Step, Growing Pains. And like every one of those shows had this moral theme at the end, right? They made a mistake, they stole something, they gave it back. Like, it was there's this light or story of redemption as part of the story. And I can't find that today. If you watch 99% of television, it's, yeah, well, hey, the, the villain, it's okay that he did that. It's justified somehow. And so I even think about those exposures over time. And so how do you think— and I'm— two questions. Yeah. How do you deal with that personally? But also as a parent, how do you deal with it with your kids? Because it seems like parents kids maybe have to be even more aware and I don't know, just intentional about how to deal with that today than they did. Because, because my parents were like, you know, I got home from school and they're like, go play in the, you know, when the streetlights come on till the streetlights come on.

Exactly. No, my, so personally I practice the things I want to be excellent at. So I practice positivity. I'm not a naturally positive person. Like I'm naturally pretty negative. I'm pretty cynical. I'm pretty jaded. But I've tested positivity and I've tested negativity and the ROI of positivity is so much better. I feel better, I'm more fun to be around, I sleep better. It's so much worth it. So for me, I practice positivity. So sometimes people come up to you and they go, "Jon, I just feel down, I feel stuck, I feel negative." I go, "Well, walk me through your day." And they'll say, "Well, I got up and the first thing I did was get on Twitter and I check in what these idiots did last night that I disagree with. And then I went to work and I hung out with the 5 people who hate their jobs just like me and we grumbled about our pay." day, the whole day. And then on the drive home, I listened to a podcast about a serial murderer. And then I came home and argued on Nextdoor. And then I watched a documentary on Netflix called People Who Look Like You Getting Murdered. I watched a Jeffrey Dahmer, uh, documentary.

Yeah.

They go, it's so weird that I feel negative. And I go, it is not weird. It'd be like if you didn't eat for 4 days and then said, Josh, you're a doctor, I feel hungry. And you're like, what'd you eat today? And like, I haven't eaten in 4 days. You'd be like, I'm gonna blow your mind. Like, so I practice it. So I don't, like, I don't try to drown like, or I don't try to starve my negativity, I drown it in positivity. So when I'm running, I'm listening to positive podcasts. When I, when I drove here, I was listening to an audiobook. Like, I wasn't casual with that time. I was like, man, I'm pretty negative by nature. I'm gonna combat that to the best of my abilities. I'm gonna have a list of positive things that I practice, that I do, that I— because I want to change and I want to grow and I want to, I want to be able to teach my kids that. So that transitions to our kids. Yeah, a lot of it's just about being active. The crazy thing to me, I did a study on 5 different types of goals. It was relationship, career, finance, um, health, and then the last one was fun. And there were 188 goals that people recorded, and only 4 of them were relationship. So most people never have relationship goals. They think relationships will just happen organically or like jazz. And so I'm deliberate about like relationship goals with my kids. So we talk about this stuff, we're engaged in this stuff. The challenge is Sometimes parents act like a phone is like a bike. So when you give a kid a bike, you don't have to check in on the bike. I never have to a month later go, hey, how's the bike going? Anybody been bullying you on that bike? You seen any porn by accident on that bike? Like, you don't have to check on the bike. A phone, you have to be engaged. Yeah, a phone, you have to be, you kind of in constant conversation. So that's part of it. And then the other thing is that we have soundtracks. So I wrote this book called Soundtracks about mindset, like the soundtracks we listen to. So our family has soundtracks. One of our soundtracks we say is Bags of bags are gold or heavy. And we didn't come up with this one, our friend Shane did. But the theme there is that, yeah, hard work is challenging, bags are gold or heavy. And you have— so the other day we were talking about that with my daughter. She had to, um, she was interviewing to be at a camp. She was going to be a junior counselor at a camp all summer, and the interview time was Monday at 7 AM. Now Monday where we live is late start, which means kids get to sleep in an hour later. But she didn't get to sleep in an hour later. She had to go drive to school to be there already to get ready for the phone call and do the interview. And we said to Way to go, McCray! Bags are gold to heaven. Every other kid was asleep, you were out there doing it. And she ended up getting the job. And so we're trying to teach them these things in a fun way. Um, so soundtracks is important to our family conversations. And then when somebody— when we see something that we disagree with, it becomes a lesson in a conversation. We go, hey, you know how that happened? This is why that happened. Like, one of our other soundtracks is no unforced errors. Like, that— a lot of people make unforced errors, which is a tennis phrase where they hit it into the net, they hit it out of bounds. So we'll say, when we're teaching them know how to drive, we'll say, hey, you could take this left across 4 lanes of traffic, or you could take a right and turn around. It'll take you 30 seconds, but take a right and turn around, a lot easier. That left across 4 lanes of traffic is an unforced error. You just made life harder than it needs to be. And we'll say, it's hard to watch people you love make life harder than it needs to be. So we're having conversations with our kids. And then my wife is really wise, so she'll say things like, if you want, um, a kind 16-year-old, teach a 6-year-old kindness and give them 10 years to practice. And so we are always going, okay, we wanna, you know, I want a kind 22-year-old. I'm gonna teach my 12-year-old kindness and give them 10 years of practice. We're taught like, we're not raising kids, we're raising adults. So when that's your approach, you become active. You, it becomes a rolling, growing lesson. And that's really fun.

It's so good. It reminds me of something that I had talked about. This was a while back, but not just having a to-do list, but having a to-be list for you and for your kids. Yeah. Like, I want my kids to be kind. I want them to be generous, right? On, and you're kind of almost checking off, and whether it's a mental note or actually written down, of, okay, we need to work on kindness today, we need to work on generosity today. Yeah.

And how can we encourage them in that and not think they'll do it accidentally? And then like, as far as specific things, it's like, okay, you know, here's the age they get a phone, or here's— like, we ask them about things. Life360 is on. I'll have parents go, yeah, they won't let me use Life360 on their phone. I'm like, oh, that's amazing. He pays his own rent and pays his own phone. Like, that's what an adult— oh wait, you're doing that? You own that phone? No 14-year-old wants to be in charge. There's not a 14-year-old on the planet that wants to be in charge. They feel terrified when parents aren't in charge because they're not built to be in charge. Now, now, they'll step into that if they recognize a vacuum in a family. A 14-year-old will be like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to do this, and they'll start demanding things and wanting things. But no real 14-year-old wants to be in charge. They want to have some boundaries, they want to have some structure, they want to have stability. And as a parent, it's your job to lean into that.

Well, it's so good. I want to go back to dreams for a minute. And so we talked about what's keeping people from their dreams. What are some of the ways that people can go and dream, dream bigger?

Yeah, so I mean, it really depends on how you want to start, but one of my favorite ways to start is just with a list. I think to give yourself a piece of paper, a pen, and say, okay, what do I want to do this year? Don't say, what do I want to do forever? That's too intimidating. Like, don't ask that question. That— I don't like that question. If somebody says to me, what do you want to do with rest of your life, or what do you want to be when you grow up? That paralyzes me. And so for me, I like that question of like, well, what do I want to do this month, or this week, or this year even? And that's what we talked about in the book. The book, um, labels this thing called the vision wall, where you, you start something, you immediately run into you have to know the end before you begin. Like, which is a great idea in Stephen Covey's book, but we've mutated it into until I know the end, I can't begin. Or we've also mutated Simon Sinek's amazing book Start With Why into until So unless you know your why, you can't try. I know people have spent 6 months trying to figure out their why. Yeah. As if as soon as they know that, then it'll all— and I go, but you, you didn't do anything else in those 6 months. Like, what if you tried some stuff? So I'm a big believer in you come up with a few goals and then you try them. Like, we talk about in the book, this concept of easy goals. Like, what if you tried it for a week and just took notes? What if you just tried it for a week, took notes? Because you'll find fake goals right away. You'll go, oh, I don't really care about this. And it's a great filter. The problem is people don't filter their goals out. And so what I've learned, people that listen to podcasts like this don't have a problem coming up with goals. They really don't. They have too many.

That's their issue.

Yeah. No one who engages with this content—

that's my problem. Every day I'm like, goal setting, I'm like, well, too many.

Yeah, not enough time. And so part of it is how do you prioritize them? How do you kind of sort through them? How do you pick them? I waste I wasted years trying to get people to come up with new goals, and what I was doing was overwhelming an already overwhelmed person.

How do you prioritize your goals?

So I use a couple different metrics. One is what's rare. So my kids are rare, like they're very rare. Like other stuff is pretty common, like business is pretty common, money is pretty common. My kids are rare. So I'll go, today, what's the rare thing? Like, oh, my daughter wants me— she emailed, she called me, um, a week before and said, hey, do you have anything on Monday? Like, could you, um, could you chaperone my art field trip to the Frist, and I had stuff on Monday, of course. Like, I— you have stuff on Monday. Yeah. And I cleared my entire Monday because that was rare. I had one shot at my senior in high school daughter saying, will you come to this field trip? And so, like, who would I be unwilling to disappoint to make that happen? Yeah. Like, who? Which client? Which— like, now, if I was somewhere out of town or out of the country, like, I would have had to be there. Like, I'm not— I don't want to exaggerate that, but also I was able to go, no, that's rare. That's rare. So like sometimes I'll ask that question. Sometimes I'll go, okay, what does this lead to? You know what? Like, is this a bigger moment here? Like this is a one and done, but this is one that could lead to 5 other opportunities. Okay, I need to prioritize that. I'll also go energy level, like what energy level do I have right now? And so for me, like I have a list of things I'm doing and they're broken down by high energy, medium energy, low energy. So let's like say low energy. High energy would be writing a book. I know when I can do that, I can do that in the morning. So like breakfast meetings are out. Like this was a little early. Like usually I wouldn't do anything at 10:30, but I was like, you're in my town. I like Josh. So like breakfast is too expensive because I'm writing. That's high energy. Like somebody want to pick my brain at 8:00. Like that's my best time. Like, no, like I'll say, hey, do you want to walk at 4:00 PM? That'd be cool because I'm getting some endorphins and it's, it's less energy time for me. So I also know my energy levels and I know, okay, I'm going to be on a low energy moment on a, on a plane after an event. I'm going to be pretty tired, but I still want to be doing something that's moved my goal forward. What are some low energy activities? Like, dude, this is how nerdy I am about this. I was too busy and I was like, I got to find other time. And I realized there's time when you board a plane to when it lands, it takes off. And so I timed it. I timed it 2 dozen different times, like a complete lunatic. Like I'd get on the plane, I'd sit down, I'd open my timer. I'm sure people next to me are like, this guy. And the average time was 31 minutes. So if I fly 100 times a year, I just found 50 hours. I found more than a week of time. So now, like, when I sit down, I have a plan. I don't accidentally get on that plane. I'm like, oh, here's this thing I want to do during that 30 minutes. I'm not scrolling Instagram, I'm not screwing around. I'm like, ooh, I can do this, like, and here's the energy level I have. So that's the degree I get to. But for, for people, you know, when I think about about how to do it. It's more about saying, okay, I've got 2 or 3 things I want to do. Here's the amount of time I have. Here's the energy. I'm going to test them for a week, and then I'm going to see what happens at the end of the week. Yeah. And I'm going to take some notes. And if I, if I love this thing— what I've learned is people don't change just because. Nobody wakes up one day and goes, I'm gonna have discipline today, I'm gonna have grit, I'm gonna have persistence. No, what happens is they get this small sliver of hope, this small little sliver of desire or joy, and they go, oh, I want more of that. Like, that was real. I want more of that. And then they start to change their life to get more of that. And so my version of that is, this is 2008, I'm stuck in my job, I've got 2 kids under the age of 4, super busy, and I start blogging. And I'm like, oh, that was actually pretty good. Like, I liked that. And then I looked at my time like logs. Like, they were— each hour was a log that I could throw into a fire, make it bigger. So I didn't wake up one day and go, I'm gonna watch less TV because it's not productive. I just didn't care about TV because it wasn't moving my blog forward. And I so enjoyed the blog that other stuff wasn't interesting. Like I tell people, I want you to find a dream you love so much that Netflix is boring. Like I want, like, so like, what would that look like? So for me, that's where you can't wait to, like, you can't wait to do it enough when you find something, but you won't find it unless you test some things. So what I would say there is find 3 things, small things. I'm gonna run a little bit. I'm gonna journal a little bit. I'm gonna practice gratitude, whatever. Try them for a week and see which one of them goes, hey, this is a good one. This is a real one. Those other ones don't matter, but I really matter. You go, all right, I'll try you a second week. I'll try you third. And then you look up and you've got a book written.

So good. You know, I think a lot of times people feel, John, like they have to be— they already have to be the expert before they start. Like, I— like, well, yeah, I can't— you know, I want to go into the field of leadership or health or, or whatever it might be. But, you know, I've got to wait until I have this certain level of competency before I even start. How often do you see that?

Um, I think I see that with people that, um, haven't started yet. So if you think about the 5 things that are blocking your starting line— so we talked about fear, we talked about discouragement or doubt or previous failures that have determined I'll fail every time forward— and one of them being I have to be competent until— but here's the reality. I always say this, and it's a rhyme because it's silly, The growing is in the going. You don't grow before you go. The growing is in the going. And so like there's so many things where you go, I don't know how to do this and I'm going to go learn. And then what I've learned is I love to get paid to learn. Like I love, like I love to learn, like learn while I'm also like, I always tell people like if you're at a day job right now that you don't love and you're like, cause this, I see this a lot and people go, I want to quit and be a writer. I want to quit and do fitness, whatever. I always say like, do both, do both. Like right now, do both. Because this is really cool thing that happens when you become your own venture capitalist. When you have a day job, you become your own venture capitalist for your dreams. So every dollar you make there is funding something on the side that gets a chance to grow. Yeah. Like, and that's really fun. That'll change your whole day job because now you're not frustrated at it. You're like, oh, all y'all are investing in my side thing. You don't know it, but that's where it's going. And all of a sudden all of a sudden your day job gets easier, your side hustle gets easier. So some of that is like, yeah, you might not have the expertise now, so the fix to it isn't to say you're already an expert, because that's probably not true, and your brain doesn't want to hold that info. Like, your brain doesn't like lies. So you don't tell yourself, oh, I'm already an expert, I'm perfect the way I am. No, that's not true, that's not helpful. What you say is, I'm going to continue learning, I'm going to continue growing. The only way to figure it out is to do it. So for me, an example would be like, I don't know how to lead a team. Well, I better practice by leading team. And that's the part people have a hard time with, is that those months or sometimes even years where you're not an expert and it's uncomfortable and you make mistakes and you're growing and you're like, I wish I had— and I keep experiencing that. I'll be— I'm almost 50. Like, I don't— I would love to tell you that like once you hit 45 you stop going through that. Like, people ask me like, how'd you know when you arrived? I'm like, dude, I haven't. Yeah, I haven't. Like, I'm still learning stuff, I'm still making mistakes. But I'm just— the mistakes are different now because I'm learning from them faster. I'm not— I don't sit in shame with the mistake for very long anymore. Like, there's still some shame that pops up, but I kind of am able to turn it around and go, all right, how could I do that with excellence next time? What did I learn in that? What did— like, but that takes time and patience. And then that gets back to distraction. If you don't have time to feed it, you never get better. So if you don't have, you know, if all your time is going somewhere else, you'll never— you'll repeat the same mistake again and again and again. Unless you learn. And then the last thing I'd say is I make games out of it. I play games constantly. So a game I learned from Marshall Goldsmith, um, who's brilliant— he, when he's trying to help a CEO change, will make them pay $10 every time they do some behavior they don't want to do in a meeting. So I was like, oh, that's a really interesting concept. So I told my team, every time I shut down somebody's idea in a meeting without listening to it and us investigating it, I'll pay you $10 in the moment. Venmo me and I'll pay you. It took a couple meetings. Like the team was like, mm, is this real? Like they didn't, but by meeting 3 or 4, they couldn't wait to be like, um, you just shut down that idea and we're pretty grumpy about it and we didn't explore it at all. So here's my Venmo. And I'd Venmo them $10. So you find ways to turn it into games and that increases the joy, it increases the time you do it. So there's so many little things you do. That move your goal forward.

That's so good. You know, one of the things I, I think that I've seen you committed to is you've continued to write books, and even you talked about your family a little bit, is growth. And so I'd love to hear some of your best practices for growing in your faith, but also in growing in your family relationships.

Yeah, so one of the best that I'm, that I'm experimenting right now— so let me see, July, August, September, October— I'm in my, about to be my 5th month of this experiment. So in July, I took a month off off. And that had been something I wanted to do for 15 years. I met a guy 15 years ago in Massachusetts when I lived there at the time who said, yeah, I go to the Cape for July. And I was like, wait, you can just take a whole— that's amazing. Like, and I didn't even know, like, I had 8 vacation days at the time when this dude told me that. I was like, someday. So just this July I took it off, and I was sitting there and I was kind of— I was reading Proverbs. I was reading the proverb of the day, which is a super easy practice. Like, today, you know, that we're recording this is the 30th I read the 30th proverb, and it talked about wisdom, how important wisdom is, how important wisdom is. And it said, though it cost you everything, acquire it. And I thought, what does it cost me? I've never thought about that. So I made a list, and it was— it cost me time. I gotta invest time in it. Cost me relationships. I have to go end some, and I got to start some, some other ones. Like, I got to go be around wise people. Cost me humility, ego. I gotta admit, I don't know. I don't know how to do that. Like, I really don't, because then somebody can teach me. Cost me opportunity. It might be a good opportunity, but it's not the right time for it. I have to say no it. So then I just said, am I doing these investments anywhere in my life? Like, does my calendar reflect that I'm spending time to acquire wisdom? And I wasn't. Like, I was running so fast doing so many different things. So I decided I'm gonna track wisdom hours for the month of July. And so I just said, every time I read a book, every time I listen to a podcast, every time I have a wise conversation with a friend. So I made a list of like 20 different activities that counted as wisdom time to me. So I got 60 hours and I was like, I think I can double that. Like, let me see if I can double that in August. And then in August I got like 127, and then in September I got like 110, and then October I think I'm going to end up at like 112. And then I just deliberately do it. So now like my decisions are better, like I'm finding more peace. Like, like it's an example of it would be. So I'm go— I went to go speak at an event with Marcus Buckingham, um, who did Strength Finders, millions of books. I know based on my past, I'll be intimidated in that room. Like, I'll be similar— like, I felt intimidated at the Michael Hyatt dinner. There's all these people that have done great things, and I know in my insecurity I'll overtalk, I'll try to share my resume, I'll blow— like, oh, like— and I won't live the way I want to live in that moment. So this is, this is last week, this one's fresh. So I'm like, what would it look like for me to honor or really serve Marcus in that moment? How could I really? Because I think that'll change how I show up if I make it about like honoring him. And, and the wise thing, which was obvious, was read his latest book. Read his latest book and ask him about it. Yeah. And so what did I do? I read his latest book. So when I saw him, I said, I just finished Love and Work. Like, I, I really liked it. I think it's your most personal book. Is that— would you say that's true? And then he was blown away that somebody— and so then I go, how do I make it even wiser next time? It's wiser next time if I give myself more time to do it. So this— I had to really power through that book before the event. So now I'm speaking at an event for Brian Buffini next spring, and he has a book called Immigrant's Edge. He's an Irish immigrant. I've already been reading that. I'm 6 months out. So you better believe by the time I show up at that event, if I get to interact with him— so that's what, like, for me, being deliberate about wisdom and being deliberate about tracking it and engaging it and going, oh man, I saw God. And like, that's a faith thing too, because then I get to go, I saw God hand in that. I saw. And so that, and investing in wisdom, like, that's one of my goals for 2024 is I'm going to do 100, average 100 hours a month on wisdom hours. And what do I, you know, how do I do that? Where do I do it? How do I track them? So that'll really engage me.

I want to say, this is so good because, I mean, I'm sure you're the same way, I'm the same way. If somebody reads my book and says, hey, I just read, I love this point you made in your book, that does get you excited. You want to talk about it. That's so good.

Yeah. So that's what I mean. I'm going I'm gonna try to do that going forward where it's like, hey, how do I, how do I, I mean, even like now what that's turned into is one of my morning routines is how do I honor and serve the people I'll interact with today? Like how do I, you know, how do I honor and serve them versus what do I have to do to perform in that room? Like that puts me in a completely different space. But if I go, man, I've got this meeting, like how do I, ooh, it would honor them if I prepared. Yeah, if I spent 15 minutes and wrote down notes and showed up prepared, they would notice. Like, they would know. Like, you had specific questions for this podcast. We've all been on podcasts where the person goes, I don't have any questions because I like it to be an honest, organic conversation. No, just say, I didn't do any homework, I didn't do any prep work. Like, but you're saying it in a way that makes you also look great and is a lie. Like, just say the truth, which was, I didn't have time to prep for this, and let's just have a conversation. All right, cool. So like, if somebody preparing for 15 minutes can really mean something to somebody, so yeah, And that's, for me, that's changed how I look at life.

Well, I know you write a lot of books. You've also read a lot of books. Mm-hmm. What are a couple of the most meaningful books you've ever read that have maybe had the biggest impact on, on your life?

Yeah. So The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. Okay. Um, is the one, the way I ask this question is, cuz I have a podcast called All It Takes Is a Goal, and I'll say, what's the book you gave away any more, more than any other, other than your own? And so like War of Art, I've given away a lot of, um, Orbiting the Giant Hairball by Gordon McKenzie. And that book is about how to stay creative at a big organization. So he describes a big organization as a hairball, and you have to orbit it close enough to benefit from the power, but not so close you get tangled in the bureaucracy. And I was going to work at Staples Corporate, and my friend gave me that book and was like, here, you're going to need this. And I was, you know, 24, and I was like, what are you talking about? And that book really helped me. The Dip by Seth Godin is another one that I've read a bunch. And then I like old school, like I've been really listening to a lot of old school motivation, like Jim Rohn. Macron, those kind of guys. There's Audible will have collections where it'll be like 14 hours of their speeches. And so like, that's the kind of stuff that I'll listen to when I'm running or when I'm, you know, working out, is those old school guys that have been around forever. And I'm like, oh man, that's still true. That thing they said is still true. Like, that's— there's a reason it's still around. So I really, I really like old school motivational guys. I've been jamming out on those for the last year.

It's so good. You know, one of the things I talked about on a recent podcast was— well, I talk about it a lot— is community. And that's something I know that you're really conscious of. In fact, you've said a couple of things in our conversation. You were going through your list of essentially, and I don't want to misquote you here, but okay, there's some people I'm spending too much time with. I need to go and spend some time with wiser, talking about wisdom there, wiser people. I think that sometimes people struggle with this idea because they feel like, well, I'm just ditching my friends or I'm doing something that's sort of— you know, doesn't show character. But, you know, I, I have my, my thoughts about it, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on sort of this importance of cultivating community. How is that wise? Like, why do you believe that's wise? And what do you do about those friends that, um, you might be leaving behind?

Yeah, so I mean, part— the reason you react that way is there's so much garbage advice on Instagram that's like, if somebody doesn't believe in you instantly, cut them out of your life.

Yeah.

So we do this extreme extreme, like, for Clicks version of like, the second you don't believe in me, you're out of my life. And we interpret anyone questioning us as not believing. And so then we become these jerks that are like, they're toxic, they're toxic, they can't have weaknesses, they're discouraging. We're like, sometimes you need a friend that's like, dude, that's a bad idea, right? Like, you're headed to danger. Like, and you, you wouldn't go like, you don't believe in me. So I think it's like anything else, you can do it to an extreme where it's not It's not helpful. So for me, what it looks like is just being deliberate about spending time with wise people. How did I do that? I made a list. I made a list of 25 people that I thought were wise, that had the kind of lives I'd like to have. Some of them were older. I'd say, wow, you know, like James Davis. I did an event with him, and man, he— you could just tell he was wise. Like, he's got his stuff dialed in. I was like, I want to reach out to him. Like, we'll get one coffee, or I'll do, you know— or like, sometimes they're younger. They, they've— they have more experience in something I'm learning. Like, I have a friend who's 15 years younger, but he's been doing YouTube for 10 years, so he's 10 years ahead of me in YouTube. So it would behoove me to go, hey, here's what I'm thinking about, how do I do that? So a lot of it's that, a lot of it's that, and then like putting them first and then other people second. Where you get in trouble, in my opinion, is where people ask for your time and you're not deliberate about it, and then you give it to a bunch of people that might not be aligned with what you're trying to do, that might not be exactly in your space. So like for me, one simple practice is I don't do a lot of like, can I pick your brain over coffee? Like, it's just not a Bible. But what I'll do is, I tell people this all the time, if you want to learn from somebody, email them and ask them what's the book you— they'd recommend you read. And then, this is crazy, read that book and then send them 5 things you learned from that book, because that's going to tell that person, oh, this is somebody serious. Like, so that's way better than approaching somebody you've never met and going, I'd like you to mentor me. Like, successful people are busy people. Like, they're busy. They're not sitting around waiting, going like, man, I hope somebody has $4 for a coffee they can buy me. Like, that's not their motivation. So I always try to approach people that way of like, is this somebody I should ask for a book recommendation? Is this somebody I can serve in a different way? And it's worthwhile for that, the conversation. Um, and then again, it's just about making time for those people. And so I still have a bunch of friends that don't do what I do, like, that I love.

Yeah.

Like, I don't— so I don't judge them and go, okay, you're not doing exactly what I'm doing at the speed I'm doing it. Um, so I haven't had to cut a ton of people out of my life. What I've had to do is go, man, this conversation never goes well. Like, so there's some people in your life that you can't cut out. Say they're, you know, for whatever reason. Yeah, I'll be deliberate about what I talk to them about. So if I know, like, we have an election coming up next fall, none of us should be surprised by that. None of us should be like, so crazy, like, I blew up in this conversation with my buddy, like, he's my brother-in-law, and like, whoa, it's like, you know, you have a year to prepare. So in situations like that, if it's somebody that I can't cut because it's not healthy. It wouldn't be honoring. It's not what God— like, if you look at the faith thing, he told us to love our enemies. Yeah. So I don't know if you found a loophole, like if it says in your Bible, love them unless they voted differently, like maybe that's your— yeah, my version says love your enemies multiple times. And so in situations like that, I'll be deliberate to talk to them about deliberate things. And then if we go to a topic that's going to blow up, it's going to be toxic, I'll say, hey, I'd rather— I'd rather not talk about this. Yeah. So I'll know, like, because if the relationship matters to me, I want to maintain it. But I don't need to have the 10th political fight to go, yeah, shocking, man, we hung up on each other, because it was like, no, you know that. So be prayed up about it and be deliberate about it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that deliberation is so important because I think about that with certain relationships. Now, I, I try and go into most, uh, you know, conversations or most relationships deliberate, but also knowing, hey, as you said, hey, there's there's a time bomb here, but I'm called to serve this person. Yeah, I'm called to challenge them, but I'm also called to nurture them. And what's that sort of balance to help them? And, and, uh, so anyways, I think that's so good.

Yeah, so you just have to— yeah, I, I really don't think it's the whole like cut everybody out who doesn't believe in you. I don't, I don't think that's wise. Agreed. I think it's a good Instagram post, I just don't think it's wise.

Yeah, that's good. You know, uh, as I mentioned earlier, you've written 9 bestselling books. What is a piece— you know, this can include the books, but it could be outside the books as well. What is something that you feel like— just sort of imagine dominoes. If, if everybody got like this one concept, this one idea, this one thing, yeah, you think it would greatly improve their life?

Yeah, I think if you put a little time into the things you care about— so much is about time. Like, time is the only honest metric. It really is. Like, you can say a million things, but if you're not putting time into them, it doesn't change anything. And that's really just a version of reap and sow. Like, yeah, people fight the law of the harvest but that's a really painful way to go through life. Like, it just is. Like, it just works. So the things you put time into get better. Like, that's how it works. And so even if you just said, I'm gonna spend 15 minutes on blank, I'm gonna spend— I'm not saying change your whole life. I'm just saying I'm gonna do a 15-minute walk around the neighborhood. I'm not saying I'm gonna run a marathon. I'm not saying I'm gonna run— lose 100 pounds. But I'm going to spend my first 15 minutes on this thing and see if I like it and see if I enjoyed it. And just being more deliberate about the time you have um, and recognizing— like I say all the time, time is the most valuable resource, but it's also our most vulnerable. Time can't protect itself, only we can protect it. Time only knows how to do one thing: flow. So it's on us to protect it, it's on us to structure it. So even just rescuing 15 minutes— like, I did this the other day, it was a couple weeks ago actually. I was like, man, I feel busy. And I looked on my screen time and I'd spent 13 hours on Instagram. 13 hours that week. And here's the crazy thing, Josh, they don't pay me. Like, those are 13 volunteer hours. I'm doing 13 hours of pro bono work for Instagram. That was not the best use of my time. So for me, and I'm not saying I'm gonna go cold turkey, never use Instagram again, but that's a wake-up call to go, um, yeah, other stuff I love. Yeah, the, the line that people can remember: do less of what you like and more of what you love. Do less of what you like, more of what you love. I like Instagram, I like Netflix, but I love holding a finished book. Yeah, I love seeing a book on a shelf. I love going to a keynote and being prepared and, and, you know, really serving an audience. So there's other— there's things I like, but there's, there's things I love. And if I can do more of what I love— and the last thing is, don't ask people what their secrets are, ask them what their sacrifices are. Because anyone who's doing really well— wow— has deliberately sacrificed stuff. They usually don't have a bunch of secrets, and they're like, when I did this, the whole world changed. They're just sacrificing other stuff that doesn't matter. And they're like, yeah, I had to come to a place where like I had to sacrifice gossip if I wanted better friendships. I had it— like, it was fun, like, yeah, it was dramatic, but for me to have stronger friendships and to feel congruent with who I was, I couldn't gossip about somebody and then show up and be a completely different person because I was a divided person, and that didn't feel good. So I had to sacrifice gossip, I had to sacrifice 10 hours of TV, whatever it is. The people who have the lives you want are being deliberate about the sacrifices, but they don't feel like sacrifices because the payoff of what they're getting It's so good, dude. Like, we have a— do you, uh, I bet, I bet you know Bill Hampton.

I bet. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah, Bill Hampton. He did, uh, he did a speech where he talked about hiring me. Bill Hampton hired me at Dave Ramsey, and he said in the speech he was terrible at public speaking. He said we would send him to empty room after empty room. We'd put him on TV. He was terrible at that. I said to my wife, I was like, was that terrible? And she was like, the worst. Dude, I don't remember it that way. I don't remember it that way at all. I remember being young and hungry and like, I'll try it, I'll try it, I'll try it. I'm better now, 10 years later, 13 years later, whatever. But even in the moment, you won't remember the pain the way you think you're going to. Yeah. Like, you won't remember it because you're doing the thing. And that's a really fun, you know, form of joy. And so like, I always tell people, joy is an amazing alarm clock. Joy. Like, I get up for flights at 4:00 AM. You wouldn't think a dream job has this many 4:00 AM flights? It does. It turns out it does. Yeah, because bags of gold are heavy. So like, that's like, I'm always looking at it that way of like, I had a, I had a, uh, a 4:30 wake-up call last Saturday because I was in Jacksonville and I wanted to get home to my family. And I was like, yeah, that's what I'm— but I was fired up to do it because it was like the right kind of difficult for me. That's a book, uh, this book ADHD 2.0 says you should have the right kind of difficult. So like for Hey, when you find your right kind of difficult, when you got your joy, like, it's just fun.

That's so good. I want to go back to something you said earlier and just make a comment on it. You know, you talked about really earlier in the day, you talked about your sort of, hey, is this a high energy activity, medium, low? I was reading this, uh, this was years ago, this thing on Elon Musk, and I, I went and wanted to research sort of the habits in terms of what time they wake up. Yeah, yeah. And it was all over the place, you know. It's like some people were like 4 AM and some people were like 9 them. But Elon Musk, he really was focused on just what you were saying, to where he would wake up and it wasn't a real early wake-up time, it was 6 or 7, but he would spend his first hour in the morning in the shower, and that's where he would think.

Yeah.

And come up with his innovative ideas. And then he would go and read. And then he said, then I would stack. He said, I knew my most important meetings of the day in ranking order, the very most important to the least, and the most important got done first. So anyways, I just thought that was a really—

I think a lot of people do that. And it's— yeah, I don't I don't think, um, most people think through that way. And then I think the pushback sometimes is, well, John, you don't know my schedule. I have a different schedule. And that's true. But I had my friend Carrie Newhoff say, when, like, when somebody gives you advice and you immediately push back on all the reasons it won't work, it'll never work for you. And he said, you don't, most people don't know of their 40 hours that they have to be at work, how many of those hours are already dictated. Like nobody has a job unless like, I'm sure there's certain jobs where like you have to be on the line on a factory floor or whatever. Whatever. But there's a lot more freedom, we just haven't taken it yet. So very rarely does a boss say, I got a 40-hour schedule for you, every one of these minutes are maintained, every one of— like, they don't say that, especially if you're excellent at what you do. You get more freedom the more excellent you get, and so they trust you more. And so just to do that exercise of going, okay, can I shape my day a little differently? I've never asked my boss. I don't know, like, maybe I can. Like, think about— I remember the first time I ever met somebody who got flex time. Guy, his name was Peter. Like, I'm old enough to remember you used to have to come to work every single day. Like, nobody even talked about that. Like, 8 to 5, you did it in this building. And then this one dude moved to Cape Cod when I worked at Bose, and we were like, oh my gosh, they're gonna let him work from Cape Cod like 3 days a week. This is crazy. Like, what's going on? It was like, it went through the ranks like, yeah, fire. And now you have more flexibility. So like, yeah, you know, be so good at what you do that they want to give you more flexibility, like, and then be intentional to go, I think I could shape my day and be even high perform— more high performing if I shaped it this way.

That's so good. You know, you talked about this sort of— and by the way, I love some of these terms you're coming up with. You got, you got some good slogans here. So one is this idea, and it's so good, around just, is it rare, right? And I just love that. What are some of those rare things you do? And maybe it's something— it's rare, but you do it consistently. Maybe it's a family tradition. What are some things you do to create meaningful family connections, any habits or rhythms you have with your family?

Yeah, so I mean, with— I'm, I'm always up with my daughter. So like, my— I have a daughter who's in college and a daughter who's—

how many kids do you have?

Two. Two daughters. One's 21, about, about to be 18. And so we're always up to help her get ready for school. Like, we don't do the getting ready, but we're always there in the morning. So it's always— I'm sitting on the couch, I'm usually doing like a quiet time, she's doing her thing. So that's a lot of it. And then we were really deliberate about activities that eliminated the phone. So you can't really be on your phone when you're kayaking. You can't really be on your phone when you're camping, like, because there's no signal. So we would try to find activities that made it easier to not be on the phone. But it's hard to be on your phone on the beach, like, it's messy, it's too bright. So we would try to find activities that made it easy to have phone-free times. So we'd do that. We did dinner, um, Um, when we had both kids in the house, we did dinner 7 nights a week. Like, that was just an expectation. That wasn't something that was, oh wait, tonight is dinner, tomorrow's dinner. Like, we would do dinner, um, 7 nights a week together. That wasn't— that was another, uh, deliberate one. My family, my wife's family is really good at every other Thanksgiving their whole family comes. So not just family of origin, like 40 different people, and they're faithful to that. So I think getting on a faithful, consistent schedule helps families where it's not every year you're debating it, you're discussing. Yeah. Um, so that's been helpful too for us to stay connected, um, to her family. And then I have it on my goal list. Like, I have, I have 'call my mom on Friday' on my whiteboard right now at home. Like, I have that because I know it's easy when I get busy to go for weeks without talking to my mom. And I'm not— she's not going to be around forever.

Yeah.

And I want her to know I love her. So I just, on Fridays, I call my mom. And, and because Friday's her day off, so it's easy to get her. Like, and she's told me a million times, like, it's so— like, every time I see your name pop up, I'm so glad you're calling. So like, I make relationship goals, and you know, and then I'm able to actually build the relationships I want. And then one that I did, the habit that was helpful— I wanted to be a better friend, but better friend is so fuzzy, you can't execute on that. So I was like, how do I be a better friend? And I decided for 30 days in a row, I'm going to encourage one person. Like, I'm not gonna make it difficult. It's not gonna be a handwritten letter on like parchment with a quill. Like, I'm just gonna text one friend. And then I made it even easier on myself. I wrote a list of the friends before the month started because I didn't want to get to day 4 and be like, oh, who do I know? So I made this list, started going through it, and I would go, Jeremy Cowart. Hey Jeremy, I just wanted you to know, every time I think about creativity, you're the name that comes to mind. Like, it's so fun to watch you create because he's really creative. Yeah. And I did that for 30 days in a row. It was impossible for me not to become a better friend at the end of that 30 days. Like, that's what— when somebody says guaranteed goals don't work, I'm like, I guarantee if you encourage 30 people at the end of the month, you're a better friend. And so then— and what was fun was that not a single person said, John, today was the worst day to tell me this. I'm so mad you told me this today. 90% of them said, you have no idea how much I needed this today. And then I was like, well, what if I could— I do that with single people? What if I encourage my kids 30 days in a row? Like, would I be a better dad at the end of that if I deliberately made a list of their characteristics and said, hey, McCray, that was really brave what you did. Like, I wanted you to— so then I'm again, like, when I say All It Takes Is a Goal is the book title, what I mean is you have a desire and you want to do it. All it takes is a goal, and there's ways to turn that thing into a goal you can actually execute and then actually achieve. So if your goal is write a book, great, here's a system. If your goal is start a business, great, here's a system. If your goal is be a closer parent to your daughter, here's a All it takes is a goal. That's how I think about it.

I love it. And I do want to mention John's got a new book out, All It Takes Is a Goal, and it's in bookstores nationwide. You can go on amazon.com and just search All It Takes Is a Goal, or just search John Acuff, J-O-N-A-C-U-F-F, and you'll see he's got a lot of books on there. Yeah, but the one, you know, the one we just— he just referenced there is All It Takes Is a Goal. And I think this is such a— first of all, I love that example. I mean, you know, I think that oftentimes people people think through their head, like, they just think that, well, you know, I'm going to try and be nice to that person, or I'm going to try and be kinder to my family, whatever it is. Versus you're saying you need to be intentional, you need to go and write it down, go through a process. I'm going to tell my mom this month, my, uh, you know, my dad, my, my kids, my, you know, these 10 friends, and one day a week I'm going to send them a text message. It's going to take me 2 minutes.

Yeah, it takes no time.

And what it does, the impact is. That's, that's so powerful.

Yeah, it doesn't take— that's the fun thing is that a lot of this stuff takes less time than you think.

Yeah.

And it has a— it's— but it's reap and sow. I heard a pastor once say, a farmer doesn't plant one kernel of corn expecting to get one other kernel. Like, the expectation is a 900x return because one kernel leads to 3 stalks. Each stalk has 300 kernels on it. So they're expecting 900x returns. So like, sometimes we don't even dream big enough about that. You don't know what that little bit of encouragement movement can cascade into. Like, you don't— so like, for me, I go, no, this has something, this has the potential to turn into something bigger in a really fun way.

I love it. It's such a good mindset too, even just painting the picture of you're a sower.

You're—

yeah, like, you're just all day, that text message, you're sowing seeds, you're sowing seeds.

Well, and here's what I've learned. So a lot of life comes down to two things. One, staying in the game, keep writing the books, keep building business, keep being present in your family. And two, don't blow up life. Don't have an affair. Don't get on drugs. Yeah, you know, don't overreach. Don't demand things you haven't earned. Like, as I look at my career, like, I was thinking about that, and like, this kind of came to a head with me with, uh, this guy Nate Bargatze, um, who's in Nashville. He just hosted Center Live. He's a comedian.

Oh, he— you know what, I actually just have to say, I started watching his. Yeah, he's hilarious. He's so funny.

He is married and has a kid, and like, he has a structure. Like, he's been deliberate to stay in the and have, you know, make wise decisions. And it's fun to see those things come to fruition. Like if you look at his old stuff, he did New York, he did all the work, but he's also not done the thing like, especially like performers chasing the high of the stage via drugs or like chasing opportunities. And like you look at him and go, that dude's doing it. Like it's really fun to watch somebody who loves their family, loves their wife, loves their kid, loves their craft, amazing at their craft. Draft, continue to have these opportunities. And you go, yeah, he stayed in the game and he hasn't blown up his life. If you can do those two things— like, you see athletes do that, you go, man, why is that athlete— all the time— yeah, they had no family structure, they blew up their life. Like, why did they do that? Well, or why did that celebrity— like, yeah, they, they had— they blew up their life. Like, and so if you can avoid those two kind of big things, you're good.

That's so good. You know, one of the things I know I've been blessed by, and I'm curious to hear from you, is I've had really great mentors, people learn from. Sure. Have you had any mentors or anyone specifically that you— has really helped you in just your, your growth and career success?

Yeah, I mean, I've probably had a hundred. Um, I got to see my dad do what he did. He planted a church, um, in New England in the 1980s, a Southern Baptist church, which was pretty unusual. And to be a church planner, you have to be an entrepreneur. So I watched him do that. A lot of how I communicate with stories or jokes is from watching him communicate that way as a pastor. It's definitely my dad. Um, Dan Cathy, the CEO of Chick-fil-A.

Yeah, wow.

I spent a couple years with him writing leadership ideas. And so going to a Chick-fil-A with him and watching the first thing he'd do when he went is empty the garbage. Or like, if we were at an event and somebody came up to him, was like, oh, what do you do? And didn't know who he was, he'd say, I'm in customer service. And he wasn't saying that so that later when they found out, they'd be like, you're so humble. So like, he was definitely another person. That encouraged me. Reggie Joyner, who's in Atlanta, we spent 10 years together, the last 10 years working on projects together, and I've got to watch him build his company, build his family. And then I would just say there's like, there's some mentors that are long-term, and then there's like single mentors. Yeah, it's like a single conversation that I go, oh man, that really, that really— like Brad Lominick from Catalyst. I used to take him out to Chili's, like I had no money, like I— this is like 2008, We were— had no— like, we would go— my wife and I would go to Chick-fil-A and split, uh, we would get 3 kids meals and we would split one and then hope the kids didn't finish theirs. Like, we had— that was our Saturday night out. Like, we never did— no money. I would take Brad to Chili's and be like, I'm really treating this guy nice for his wisdom. And, uh, he would be like, hey, be careful about this, here's something to think about. We're still friends to this day. Wow. But he really at the time was like, hey, here's, you know, if you go with this type of publisher, you got to think about this. If you go with this, you be thinking about this. And that was super helpful. And in Atlanta, like, Gabe Lyons was another one that I'd have a single conversation with. So finding people like that and then also listening and taking notes, like you said, like after you interact with somebody, like, oh man, yeah, that was a good idea. I need to write that down. How do I— like, what's that version of my life? And then the— sometimes I tell people the reverse mentor, the person you don't want to be. Like when you're around people and you go, oh, Yeah, I'm gonna— like, that's equally as helpful sometimes when you go, I saw how they treated that person, I gotta work on that. Yeah, I saw— like, I don't— like, here's the thing, the mistakes you make in your 20s and 30s and even your 40s don't really show up until your 50s, and they show up and they are neon. Yeah, like, they show up. And so, like, now I'm old enough to see, like, people in their 50s and their 60s where I can go, I want my life to be shaped like that. Oh, I don't want it to be shaped like that. What are the decisions they made that got to that point. And I'm like, oh, let's make some different decisions. So my wife and I are constantly talking about that. Like, I, I'm surprised how many of— how many people I talk to that are like my age that don't have a plan for retirement or don't have like— yeah. And I'm like, dude, you know it's happening, right? Like, you know it's going to be like here before you know it. Like, and so I'm— we're having right now, we're talking— Jenny and I are having 12 to 14-year conversations where we're like, okay, at 60, 62. Do I control all that? Of course not. But I want to be a good steward of it. And so we're gonna steward what we can steward and go, okay, financially, health, whatever. Like, I really believe there's 5 types of wealth. There's financial wealth, there's wisdom wealth, there's time wealth, um, there's health wealth, and there's relationship wealth. So I saw the other day, um, uh, somebody I know had somebody cancel on a trip. Like, they were going to do a big hiking trip and the person canceled, and she contacted her in-laws— not, not her in-laws, her grandparents— and said, would you go on it with me? And they immediately said yes. And number one, they had the time. They had time wealth. They could just do it. Number two, they had the finances. They could go spend $10,000 on a hiking trip they hadn't planned. Number three, they had the relationship. Their grandkid loved them enough to invite them. Number four, they had the wisdom to do it. Like, yeah, this is the right decision. Number five, they health. The, the grandfather recently had his knees redone 2 years ago. He could go do the hike. And so I look at them and they're 70, and I go, I want to be at 70 with those type— those 5 types of wealth. How do I do that? Like, I, I don't want to— I don't want to get that call from a grandkid and go, we don't have the money to do that. We would love to. Imagine a grandkid invites you to go hike the Pacific Crest Trail and you can't do it. Like, you would love to be able to do that. Imagine they ask you and you don't have the physical health and, and you don't get to do it. Like, imagine you're so busy. I'm still working at 70, grinding. Like I said, like, no, I, like, I don't want— I want to have the time wealth. So seeing that ahead and then taking notes gives me something to aim for.

I mean, the sort of wealth you're talking about, it's real wealth, you know. I think a lot of times people are thinking it's, you know, having certain— it's, it's assets, it's a certain house or a certain car or whatever it might be. But that's, uh, it's so Good. You know, as you have been around some of these great mentors, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Well, my dad told me, um, always have people in your life who aren't on your payroll. He was like, because people— if your only relationships are on your payroll, there's a line they can't go past with truth because they'll start to do the math of going, if I say this, I could lose my job, and I, I could— like, we got a mortgage. Yeah, I got it. So he said, always have friends essentially that can tell you the truth. And so where I've turned that, like the phrase I use is leaders who can't be questioned end up doing questionable things. So leaders who can't be questioned end up doing questionable things. You show me a church that fell, show me a business that fell, I'll show you a leader who is isolated and could only be told the things they wanted to hear. So that like, that's one, it's not easy and it's not fun, but like I had somebody tell me, she was like, hey, I wish you, I wish you showed up in that meeting before you're angry. And what she was saying was like, I was stressed about a different situation. I showed up to the meeting and I shut the meeting down with like my anger. And she was like, you blew that meeting and that young per— like, you made that young person feel so small. And I had to start the next meeting by apologizing. So I didn't like— like, I didn't feel great in the moment when she told me that, but it was true. And then if I know it's true, it can change the next way I show up in the meeting. So like having people that can tell you truth. And my wife certainly does that. I think that's a challenge with spouses is if your spouse throws fuel on your fire, you're doomed. So if you have a spouse and say somebody offends me and they go, I can't believe they did that to you, do you believe they did that to you? That's terrible. That's fuel on a fire. I'm gonna like— I'm gonna make the situation worse. I have a spouse that does the opposite and goes, well, we don't know all the details yet, right? I mean, it's really not that big of a deal. Or like, is your ego hurt about it? I think you need to not let the ego drive that. Like, so having a wise spouse, for me, like, we don't talk about that enough in, in marriage, in life. Like, having a full cup wife, like, or a full cup husband is game-changing.

Yeah, it's so big. What's your best piece of advice for people who are saying to themselves, hey, I, you know, and, and you know the audience of the podcast, or these are a lot of people, they want to grow, they want to get better, better? What's your best piece of advice for them?

Um, I would say just, just go ahead and start. Like, uh, I think we sometimes say tomorrow me will be so productive, and I would just say like, well, what is— what about today you? Like, and, and I think about that sometimes. Another way I say it is like, I want to hook— I want to hook up future me. I'm constantly trying to think about how do I hook up future me, and future me can be tomorrow me. So that can mean I do these 3 projects today and not put them off to tomorrow because I don't want to screw tomorrow me. It can mean I go to bed on time because morning me is going to be screwed. Like, we've all had that experience where you wake up and you're like, stupid evening me got so cocky and stayed up till 1 AM and like, oh, screwed my morning. It's like, hey, sorry. So like, it can mean, you know, saving for your retirement. Like, I want 60 me to be like, man, I'm so glad that when you were 47 you did these things. Like, thanks for doing sucky stuff you didn't want to do financially at 47. 7, even though it wasn't fun, even though— so I think that's something I'd say too, is like, what would it look like for you to hook up next week you, or next year you, or next month you? Um, because I think if you think about it that way, it changes how you approach today and makes you go, no, I'm gonna make tomorrow really easy for me. I'm gonna love me enough to do the hard work today because tomorrow me is going to be grateful.

It's so good. You know, this is something actually I, I wrote about in, in, uh, in a book I wrote. It's there's a great scene in The Simpsons, and so where Homer takes a bottle of an empty mayonnaise jar and fills it full of vodka and drinks it. And then, and then Marge is like, you know, you're gonna feel terrible. And he's like, well, that's a problem for future Homer, not now.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's the same thing that a lot of people do, and it works both ways, positive and negative.

Yeah. And that the positive is a lot more fun. The positive, you kind of want to high-five yesterday you. I'm like, hey, Good, good for you. Like, here's a silly example of that. When you change your sheets, you take off your sheets in the morning, don't wait until tonight to put them back on. You're going to be furious when at 10 PM you go back into your bedroom and realize, oh no. The other version of that is when it's the end of the day and you're almost out of gas, you go, I'll get gas in the morning tomorrow before work. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Like, be so nice to morning you. Like, be like, get the gas tonight. Night, might take 10 extra minutes on your way home. Morning you, when you're rushing late to work, is gonna be so grateful that you did that.

I mean, this is generally maybe the single most— and I think a lot of, you know, successful entrepreneurs and people would agree with this— it's maybe the most, uh, significant piece of advice in terms— it's, it's delaying gratification, right? And there's been so many psychological and scientific studies proving long-term success is tied to— oh yeah, what you're sharing. But the way that I like the way that you're framing it, because I think all of us can relate to that. It's, it's, uh, you know, yeah, well, my— well, well, me tomorrow or me in 10 years be happy with this decision.

Yeah. And it again, like, start small, do tomorrow you, work your way up to next week you, work your way up to— you know, a version of that would be like, I don't wait— I no longer wait until December to plan resolutions or goals. The reason people fail at goals is they wait until the last week of December when they're on vacation and they rush and slap together some resolutions so that they're ready by January 1st. My approach now is I practice them. Imagine how much better your resolutions would be if you spent the month of December practicing. Like, and just did— just like, everything you practice is better. Like, why wait till January 1st? Like, go ahead, get them going. Think about them. What if you— like, the, the version of that with gift giving is I became a better gift giver when I started listening to gifts my wife mentioned all year long and putting them in So why screw December John? December John on December 10th is going to be like, oh, she likes wood, right? I think she said she liked spoons. Or me all year, or even just you in October through December, when your spouse goes, oh, that's a really cute whatever, put that on your phone. And then guess what? December, you're going to open up your phone and be like, what? You're going to have 10 amazing gifts. And then you're going to give one and they'll go, I can't believe you remembered. Remembered? And you're gonna be like, yeah, I did. And again, it took 30 seconds of being present. You got to be present. 30 seconds of being present, and it, like, it makes the gift so much better.

All it takes is a plan. Let's talk about all it takes is a goal here, just to kind of close this out. Talk to me about how does somebody go about— just talk generally a little bit about how does somebody— when you say all it takes is a goal, talk to me about just that process in general, what you mean by that.

Yeah, so I mean, you find a something you're curious about, and it can be anything. It can be any part of your life, any, you know, it can be financial, physical, whatever. You find a desire or curiosity. It doesn't have to be a perfect why. It doesn't have to be a perfect, I'm going to do this plan for the next 10 years. Where we entrepreneurs get stuck is we say you have to micro-niche before you start. Like, you can't say, I want to do health. You have to say, I want to help redheads in, you know, Fresno, California, from 2 AM to 4. Like, you're like, no, no, no, like don't feel you have to be so specific at the beginning. Have a general desire. Have a general desire, write it down, put 15 minutes to it, do it for a week, do it for 3 times, 15 minutes a pop for a week, and then see, okay, I did like this, I do want to double down, or I didn't like it, I want to do a different one. Again, every listener right now has more goals than they can possibly come up with. Don't try to pick the perfect one. Pick 2 to 3 if you have that bandwidth, and then try it for a week and then see what happens. And then if it goes well, expand it. And if it doesn't, if you go 0 for 3, no big deal. You probably have 10 other things you're interested in. You probably have 15 other things. So that, you know, for me, that's how easy it can be. It's just like doing it that way. And then you'll look up, and if you have something you like doing, you'll just do a bunch of repetitions, a bunch of laps, a bunch of practice, and it'll get better, and you'll learn more, and you'll learn things you couldn't have learned until you got in the game. And now that you're in the game, the learning gets faster, the learning speeds up because you're actually doing it. And then you keep, you Like, I didn't, I didn't guess for the next time I do the Marcus Buckingham book thing. Like, I didn't try to come up with that. I had a real-life situation, a real game I was playing called, I'm going to be in a room with somebody I respect. I don't want to be insecure. How do I fix that? I came up with a solution. It's going to only get better and better and better and better every time I do it. Yeah, but I didn't stop and sit down with a blank piece of paper and try to come up with it. I got in the game. So pick a goal, spend a couple minutes on it, get in the game, learn from the game, Repeat, expand, repeat, expand.

I love it. So good, man. You dropped a lot of wisdom today.

I appreciate that.

Thanks so much.

Yeah, thanks, man.

Thanks for having me. It was so good. I want to remind everybody, check out John's new book, All It Takes Is a Goal. You can search on amazon.com, John Acuff. Uh, I want to say thanks again, everybody, for watching. Um, hey, if you're not subscribed, hey, make sure to subscribe here. We got a lot more great guests coming up. And hey, we'd love to hear in the comments, what is that piece of advice, that drop of wisdom that John shared today that you're going to walk away with and you're going to go and take action with. Again, thanks for watching. Thanks again for, uh, John sharing his wisdom today. Thanks everybody.