Infrared Saunas: The Secret to Detox, Energy, and Longevity with Sunlighten Founder Connie Zack

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I am your host, Dr. Axe, and each and every week on this podcast, we deep into the science and principles behind how to grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Today we're going to be talking about the power of infrared saunas and red light therapy. And I've been a user of infrared saunas for many years, and it has been an incredible practice that has allowed me to sleep better, detoxify better, increase my lifespan, my cellular health. And I've brought in an expert today, Connie Zak, who is going to talk to us about— and we're gonna have a conversation about today— infrared sanas, how to use them, how not to use them, how long to stay in them, how to rehydrate, and some other things with infrared light. And Connie is one of the world's leading experts in infrared light therapy, and she's the co-founder of Sunlight and Sauna. So we're gonna have a great conversation today talking to you about how to heal with the power of infrared light therapy and heat therapy. Before I dive in though, make sure to subscribe and don't forget to sign up for my weekly newsletter, uh, where you're going to get a lot of tips on how to take your health your life to the next level. Well, Connie, it's great to see you again.

It's great to see you. I'm so happy to be here in person.

Well, great. Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you flew in. I know we were talking about from Kansas City and, uh, easy flight, by the way.

It is from Kansas. You have to come to Kansas City.

Yeah, I will. I, I will. Sometime. It's been years. I, I, I was several years ago, and we have a farm we talked about in Missouri. Jordan Rubin and I raise, uh, water buffalo and zebu and all kinds of— do a lot of regenerative agriculture in, in, uh, southern Missouri, and so in the Ozarks, and it's a great place.

Yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully you'll come to Kansas City and I can return the, the favor here because this is fantastic being here.

Well, we'd love that. Well, um, I, you know, I've used your sauna, your brand, for many years and seen such great benefits from it. And, um, infrared light therapy and saunas are growing. Actually, I'm just curious to hear how much, let's say since, I don't know, over the last 3 years or so, have What has the growth been in the red light industry, sauna industry? Like, what sort of growth have you seen? Any, any statistics or numbers for your own company or just in general?

Really, since COVID is when— I mean, we were growing. I mean, we've been growing since we started, but there definitely has been more of a spike. 2019 was, was really good and then 2020 just, just took off. So a lot of people were talking at the time about using their own infrared sauna for COVID and for long COVID.

That's right.

So there was a lot of discussion about how do you strengthen your immune system with infrared. And so that really, you know, started to propel the market. And then since then, over the past several years, it just, yeah, it's continued to grow. I don't have specific numbers, but I can tell you that with our company, it's really been exponentially growing. An exponential growth in both our red light as well as saunas. So happy, you know, I'm so, so thrilled that people are, um, you know, expressing interest because I've been doing this a long time. So it's, um, it's nice when people are coming to us, you know, and want to know more. So I'm thrilled that I'm here and we can talk about it and whatever, whatever people want to know, I'm happy to help.

Well, you know, I've seen so many people who now have— and it really is with COVID I mean, COVID, I saw so many people start to invest in their own home and do their own, um, you know, functional medicine or biohacking gear. And well, and homesteading is a whole nother thing. I mean, the number of people now that have chickens or goats or making sourdough bread— I think people became much more health conscious during that time. They, they started thinking about, um, COVID, what that could do to their health. And of course, we know that one of the things around this is heat, you know, heat shock proteins. It can be amazing for, for those long COVID symptoms and for viral issues. And so it's powerful tool for fighting a lot of different health issues. And that, that would be one of my first questions for you is, when we're talking about infrared saunas, what are some of the immune benefits that people can experience by using infrared saunas? And then are there any specific settings or an amount of time that we see in the research, or that you've experienced? And, and, and by the way, how many years have you been in the sauna industry?

Next year will be, um, well, actually this year. Gosh, this year is our 25th year. 25 years. Yes. Isn't that crazy? It's just absolutely blows my mind. I mean, the world has changed so much since when we started in the basement and, you know, when people would call and they're like, what, what is this thing called infrared? Is this like a microwave? And I mean, just the change in discussions, the change in people, like you said, the fact that people are looking internally to, like, empower themselves with tools that they can do at home. The whole chicken thing. We own chickens. Do we own chickens before COVID No. You know, I mean, but that's great. You know, it's really because it really helps empower people to do their own wellness and be in control versus relying on external, you know, resources. Not that there's anything wrong with, you know, the medical, you know, system or anything, but—

I think there's actually a lot more on the system, but we can talk about that later.

That's not my position. My position is the fact that there's— we're learning so much about the body that you can change it, right, with your own— with tools like infrared. You can change it with nutrients. You can change it with the way you eat, the way you move. And people, I think, in the past are always thinking that aging is just a natural thing and they're just going to have to have pain and aches and all these things no matter what, just because they have another birthday. And that's not the truth. So as far as your question, I didn't answer your question as far as the immune system. So one of the best ways— there's so many ways that infrared helps with the immune system, but I always have this analogy that the heat shock proteins are like personal trainers for your cells and infrared activates your heat shock proteins. So it essentially— my visual when I was during COVID and I saunaed every day inside my Sunlighten, and I just was like really picturing my cells getting stronger and like putting on armor. You know, around them. And that's the activation of the heat shock protein so that they can get stronger and they can protect you and they can protect you against viruses. The other mechanism is the fact that the way infrared is absorbed into the cells, it helps to increase your core temperature and viruses can't thrive in a heated environment. So you're again protecting, you know, your cells and you're changing your cells. That's two different ways that it can help.

Yeah, yeah, we know that the body, in order to kill infections, oftentimes will heat up. You know, you will start to have a fever. It's so, it's so interesting. You know, I, uh, grew up in my medical training with, um, you know, chiropractic training and a doctor of natural medicine training, and that training was very much support the body in doing what it's already doing. So sometimes when you had a virus, they would tell you get in a sauna, warm the body up a little bit. Now, we don't want to go over you know, certain temperatures, 106, or— but, but warm, you know, it's okay to warm it up a little bit. Where the, the conventional medical system is like, well, cool it down, you know, you know, do as much as you can to cool the body down. And I think that they're very counter, uh, counter ideologies and philosophies in terms of what to do with the body. I think about the same thing with medications. Medications are created to change what the body's doing. Cholesterol is going up, we want to force it down, right? Versus what supplements tend to do is, well, let's give the body what it needs so to— so it can naturally bring it down on its own, not force it to do that. And so one of the things I like about Sauna is it really embraces this ancient philosophy, uh, of medicine of we want to support the body in already doing what it needs to do. Most people, according to Chinese medicine and Ayurveda, their bodies are too cold internally. This is why we see so much hypothyroidism today and low testosterone in men. Those are known as, in, in those ancient philosophies, where the body isn't generating enough heat on its own. And we can actually de-stress the body and help people heal with men with low testosterone, women with issues like Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism, when we naturally support the heating up of their body via infrared light. And that's one of the powers of infrared, right? Infrared light, right, is that it goes deeper into the body. Have you seen any research in terms of if somebody just puts on a heating pad versus if somebody uses infrared light, how much deeper does it— that penetrate in terms of the, the heat into the, the cells in the body?

So there is benefit. Well, I've seen research on infrared with like a fit— like there's a Weigh On study, um, using Weigh On therapy, uh, years ago. So powerful. Only 15 minutes a day of far infrared, which is the infrared wavelength that is absorbed— that's, that's the heat aspect of infrared, and that is absorbed into your water molecules. Only 15 minutes a day of essentially a, you know, heated environment with infrared changed their entire morbidity and mortality rate. I mean, it's crazy. It saved lives. 54% reduction in morbidity and mortality for those who used infrared 15 minutes a day versus those who didn't. Wow. So far infrared, to answer your question, as far as the depth, is the far infrared and the heat is different mechanisms than light. What's so powerful is, is at Sunlighten, we've created a product that combines the two. So you don't have to choose. You can do it all, which is phenomenal because it really impacts the entire body, every single system, which we can talk about. But the near-infrared, which is invisible light, and the red, red light penetrate the skin. So they do— they activate your mitochondria and your water and your cells and totally different ways and there's benefits, unique benefits.

Let's talk about the difference there, because when you're in, um, when you're in a sauna, specifically Sunlighten, I know on the screen what I see is there's 3 types of waves, right? You see the infrared, you see the— or do you see the near, the far, and then the medium? And so how are those different in terms of what they do, uh, with— within the body?

Yeah, so far is absorbed. So far is— I always think of as like an ocean wave. It's, it's the longest wavelength and it is absorbed into the water molecules. And it's actually absorbed— this is an important point because people think of heat, they think they need to heat their sauna up. It's actually absorbed at the deepest level when you first turn it on because the wavelength is the coolest and the body receives it the quickest and the— has the highest penetration. So we work with Dr. Hamblin, who is the expert, you know, he's really the grandfather, godfather of infrared, and he has taught us so much. And he constantly says, Connie, tell people to get in, like, don't worry about this whole preheating thing because it's the energy. It's energy medicine. It's the energy that's changing yourself.

So people want to be getting in their saunas not, not when it's at its height of its temperature, while it's actually warming up, right? Right. That's key, because I would, I would guess 90-plus percent of people didn't know that, right?

It's true. And I have people— we have an app now, which is awesome. And so, so many people tell me, like, they wake up and they get— first thing they do is they grab their phone and they turn on their sun, you know, their sauna that's downstairs or wherever it is, you know, with the app, which is fabulous. So my thing is, if you do that, that's great. Use the app, app fantastic. But then get in. Don't worry about— don't like— you don't need to. I mean, you can do— everybody has, I feel like, a morning routine. So you can still do, you know, your hot water with lemon or whatever you do, your coffee, green tea. That's fine. But don't, don't limit yourself to getting in because you feel like it needs to be hot, because the energy will penetrate your body at a deeper level if you just do it right away. So that's far infrared. Mid-infrared is a little bit choppier as far as the wavelength. It doesn't go as deep. But it is also a hotter experience. And that's really great for reducing inflammation at the joints and tissues level. It's also great for helping with weight loss as well as increasing circulation. And then near and now red light we've added to our InPulse Smart Sauna. So now we have both light energies absorb— they're absorbed, they penetrate the skin. So there is the surface level, near infrared goes the deepest. A lot of people don't know that. That's another thing that I want to help people understand is near-infrared. The reason we chose it in the first place is because based on all the science and the data, it is out of all the, the light energy aspects, it goes the deepest. So it has the most therapeutic benefit on our body, the most effect on our mitochondria specifically. And then red goes a little not as deep, but they have similar health benefits. But when you combine the two, there's an extra powerful synergistic effect on the body, specifically at the cellular level with increasing the amount of energy, which is fabulous. And I always wondered—

it's—

and Farm Fred does that with the exclusions on water. So it's like when you combine the two, that's why you get so much more energy after your sauna experience is because you're getting, you're getting this light penetration and you're getting this heat absorption. Both are working with your cells to give more cellular energy. But all over, you know, not just in one, one system. So that's a quick— I mean, that was just a quick overview of each one.

Yeah, I mean, that was a great overview. And I think this is why when you are buying a sauna, you want to make sure that the sauna you buy has the far infrared, the medium, the near, and the red light, all of those in combination. And one of the things I know I have in my sauna is actually it has multiple colors, not just red light at the top, it's green and blue. Talk to me about some of, some of that, you know. I, I, I know that red light therapy is very popular today, um, but there actually are benefits of blue light and other, uh, other, uh, other, other types of light.

Yeah, yeah, light is— it's so needed. And, you know, this morning I had the great fortune on the way to the airport, I was able to— because I left pretty early to get here— and I was able to see the sunrise. And, you know, and I, I, I was talking to, um, my friend, and, and I'm like, this is just It's just so amazing. And when you see the sunrise, it reminds you of like the ancient, you know, traditions of people waking up because the sun was coming up and the power of placing your eyeballs on that ascend and seeing, because that's when you can see, you can see the red light, you can see all the visible light that's out there, which is so— it's so important for your brain. It's important for your circadian rhythm. So yes, there's other lights that are, that are, that are very therapeutic. We call it chromotherapy. And that's what you have inside your sauna. And how they really work is they work with the chakras in the body. So different colors affect the body differently. For example, orange affects your libido. And, and you can turn— you can have just one light or you can have multiple. But that's something that we studied years ago and And we now have it in all of our saunas. So you get, you get all light, light energy. You, you know, you can have everything in, in one place.

Yeah.

You know, I think it's really powerful. And I do wanna mention, you mentioned chakras, that tends to be correlated with certain types of Indian medicine and sometimes even Ayurveda. We know in Chinese medicine, they talk a lot about your body's body clock and how different colors have different benefits of the body. Everything from the color of food to the color of light, And I just think it's amazing what, you know, how, you know, God created just the, you know, us to be able to see some of those. I mean, there are things like you don't even think about this, but the different colors of sunsets probably have a different impact on your own physiology based on the color that you're seeing, whether it's a purple or a gold or a red in the power of the sun via our eyes are connected to our nervous system and what even those rays are doing actually to our skin. I think Right now, what most people talk about with the benefits of the sun are when the UV is high and we're getting more of that vitamin D synthesis via the liver. However, there are other benefits we don't— haven't even fully discovered yet of being able to be in the sun at different points of the day. To your point, at sunrise and at sunset. Have you looked at any research on— is there or is there any overlap between some of the rays than maybe the sun gives off and far infrared, medium, any of those different types of rays.

Yes. Estimated about 55 to 60% of the sun's rays are in the infrared spectrum. So it explains— That's amazing. I know. So what we're doing at Sunlighten is bringing the sun inside, you know? So, you know, we're trying to capture all of that and that feeling of when you walk outside and you feel, you know, the sun and you feel it sometimes even before you see it. It's that feels good, that really feel-good feeling. That's infrared. That's the feeling of infrared. A lot of times people ask me like, how does it feel, you know, compared to— I know what traditional heat feels like on a hot day. How does infrared feel different? And I always explain it's that when you're outside and it's cloudy and all of a sudden the rays peek out from the clouds and you're, oh gosh, like you just want to stay there for a moment and absorb that feeling because it just feels so good. Like, sun, thank you. You know, and those are the rays. So yeah, the majority— said another way, the majority of rays from the sun are in the infrared spectrum. And then we just divided it out, you know, and targeted each frequency, the right frequency, the optimal frequency of each wavelength, far, mid, near, and red, and then harnessed it and delivered it in one place.

I mean, and that's what the ultimate that, you know, I don't know if I love this term or not, the biohacking term, but overall I do think that most of the best biohacking equipment is, is modeling or harnessing the power of nature in some way. And infrared light and sonotherapy is sort of the epitome of that in that very same way. And, you know, the statistics are people spend more than 90% of their time indoors. Right, the average person. And I found for myself, I sleep the best, I'm the healthiest the more time I spend outdoors. I mean, it's, it's a, it's in proportion for the most part in terms of how my overall health, health is. And so more people need more of these infrared rays, these different types of rays. And so I want to encourage everybody to, as much as you can, get out in the direct sun. But it's hard, you know, so many people live— I mean, obviously we also have seasons, you know, you're in the winter Some people haven't seen the sun for months, hardly. I know growing up in Ohio, my wife in Minnesota, I mean, it was like a gray cloud over those states for, for months at a time. And you're really not getting some of that sun that you want to get. That's where infrared sauna is another— I mean, just where they're probably needed the most.

Yeah, for sure.

When you're not getting that.

For sure. I mean, I spent some time in Cincinnati before we started Sunlight and working for Procter Gamble and I remember that so well, that it was cloudy, you know, and I'm like, where is the sun? And, and now it makes so much sense. Like, your body needs it. It's like plants, like they need light energy, you know, they need it to live and to survive. We do too. I mean, our bodies are solar panels, so we need that activation. We need those rays, you know, just coming into our body to activate ourselves and to make ourselves ourselves, you know, healthier and stronger, you know, and revitalize and sleep better. I mean, all those things are connected, you know, and I think the best thing we can do in today's day and age is do the things naturally to make our bodies the way they should be versus, you know, just accepting it or, you know, trying to, you know, do different things that aren't going to connect with the body system the way the body was meant to do, you know. Yeah. And that's a benefit of infrared. It really works with the body the way it helps to, you know, work with the cells and get them back to their correct place and everything so that you're the way you were X years ago, you know, 10 years ago or whatever, you know, 20 years ago, depending on what's going on in your life.

Well, you know, to your point, if somebody wants to get well, they have to heal the cell, right? I mean, that's so important. We're made up of around 37 trillion cells, and we've got to heal the body at a cellular level, including the mitochondria and the cell wall. And that's one of the great things about infrared sauna use. I also just want to say, I have prescribed and recommended so many people go get and utilize an infrared sauna if they can, because the benefits for certain conditions there's a lot of great medical evidence for it. And I've also just seen it in the lives of my patients. For instance, I mentioned earlier hormonal issues, uh, hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's in women. I've seen amazing results. Low testosterone in men, seen amazing results. People that want to lose weight, great results. People that want to detoxify their body and cleanse from different, different, um, you know, exposures, you know, even things like glyphosate or heavy metals, you know, there are studies around detoxifying those those chemicals. I've seen great results with people with insomnia. Part of that, I think, is their circadian rhythms are off. They're not getting enough of those— the, the, the, the light, and also just time to relax at certain times of day. Longevity. I know I, I really— I know I had a sauna before this and used it, you know, uh, all the time, but I became even more committed to using a sauna after I was diagnosed with a serious spinal infection, um, a couple years ago. Didn't walk for a year. And because I wasn't walking, I also knew I need to improve my circulation and, and to help my cells heal more quickly. And so getting in a sauna and getting that, that, that red light and the other, other wavelengths was so beneficial in my recovery. And in Chinese medicine, this is known— most people's bodies are too cool. We really want to get more heat and circulation in the body, uh, as well. This is also a good recommendation for heart disease, for infections, when people have Lyme heart disease. I've prescribed it and recommended it for, uh, long COVID, for mold, for a number of issues. And so we know that saunas have amazing benefits, but one of the benefits I want to highlight today, and the reason I'm using it so frequently now, is for longevity. Is I want to add years to my life and add life to my years. And so this is a great tool for longevity. There's great studies around that. What are— is there any evidence you have or any research in terms of the efficacy of using saunas for actually increasing our lifespan?

Yes, lots. So, well, first, before I get into the hallmarks of aging, the Weyoun therapy, that just to reinforce that, 'cause when you decrease morbidity, mortality, and you say like the group, more than 50% of people were kept out of the hospital and kept alive because they used infrared for 15 minutes a day. I mean, that's just, it's crazy. It, you know, and it's so easy and it feels good. So, so, so on the heart health aspect, there's so much data that, that infrared and a lot of the infrared, just to clarify on heart health, because I feel like we're doing a lot of clarifications today, which is awesome. The far infrared, I call far infrared the foundational infrared wavelength. That's really the core. And, and there's benefits to all of them, but that's just the— it's the foundation. And that's the one that we talked about is absorbed into the cells. That's the one specifically when it comes to cardiovascular benefits, has a significant effect. I mean, it really helps. It's like a passive cardiovascular workout just while sitting there. So I can talk about more cardio stuff in a second. But that's significant research. And there's research on CHF and coronary artery disease. The other exciting thing that people should know is there's all these new hallmarks of aging. Essentially, there's markers, right? There's things that people have classified as these are the things that are going to cause you to age faster. And if you really look at it, there's about 10 total. And in one infrared sauna session, especially an Impulse, you can, you can help impact 5 of those 10 with just Impulse. So the 5 specifically that infrared helps with is your mitochondria. So one of the hallmarks of aging is mitochondrial dysfunction. And then there's cellular senescence, which is essentially zombie cells. We call infrared the zombie slayer. Then there's inflammation. And each wavelength, like, each wavelength is, is critical for the optimal inflammation because they attack your cells— not attack, they help your cells at different levels. And then there's your gut, gut health. It improves gut through detoxification and inflammation decreasing it. And then your stem cell exhaustion, it significantly revitalizes your stem cells. So That's part of the research showing this is one tool that can help you feel better. And definitely my favorite way to look at it when it comes to longevity is it's going to add life to your years. You're going to just feel better. I mean, our brand promise is we want people to feel better and be able to do more of what they love to do. And they want to live their fullest life. And that to me is how I want to celebrate my next birthday, you know, is I just, I feel better. At this birthday than I did at my last one. Right. And so why not use tools that, you know, are going to help, you know, increase your cell energy because it's going to impact your mitochondria on a positive level? You know, those kinds of things. It's really exciting. As you can probably hear me talk, it's just exciting that we know of something that it's not— it's not arduous, it's not exhausting, and it's not like you have to suffer through it and you're counting down the minutes and you can do it in the comfort of your own home. Home. And, and you can do other things while you're doing it. I'd love to hear, like, other— like, what, what you do in your routine on a separate question, because I think people want to know, like, what, what should I do and how should I do it? And what's, you know, what's other people— what's Dr. Axe's experience and how does he do it? But it's exciting that you can do— you can get all these cellular benefits, cellular cleanup, cellular energy in one tool.

Yeah. So, and I do want to reference, um, there, there have been a couple papers written on these hallmarks of aging. There's one that's 10 Hallmarks of Aging, there's another on 12, and they keep coming up with them. But right, but basically, you know, going off the 10 here, um, you know, these hallmarks of aging are things that you can test or look at in certain cases to see, hey, what's my, what's my age? And today there are tests on biological age versus chronological age. I did one called GlycanAge and was about 10 years younger. I actually was surprised it was that because I went through a spinal infection, had a lot of issues, and still— and a big part of it was is everything from my diet, my exercise, my spiritual practices, my infrared sauna use. I think all of those holistically work together to start to help reverse or slow that aging process. And I wanna call out a few of those there, and then I'd love to share mine, Connie. But you talked about a few, you know, the mitochondrial dysfunction. This is something that we see a lot today. And I wanna mention, if anybody is a, has an understanding of Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine, this really relates to, as we talk about qi, energy or life force. And so it's most connected to the adrenal glands, but this mitochondria, like the engines and powerhouses of our cells. And so if we can activate those, you're going to send nourishment to every organ, cell, and tissue of your body. And if you think about it like this, um, there are a couple other major causes of aging. That's, that's toxicity and deficiency. But really, for your body to detox or your body to build new and healthy cells, you've got to have energy in the first place. And that's why— true— mitochondrial health is just so critical, important. So when I saw the research on infrared and how that activated mitochondria, it's especially important for people with chronic fatigue syndrome, hypothyroidism, low testosterone, anything where your adrenals or your body is worn out and fatigued. You need more mitochondria for healing as well. So, so that's really big. The cellular senescence, I mean, this is really key for clearing out cells that are essentially dead or aged. And the fact that we can do that and detoxify— essentially, it's a form of detoxification— is so powerful as well. Also, the inflammation, we know that that's important. In fact, we call it inflammaging, right?

Number one cause of aging. Yeah, right there. You know, so if we can decrease inflammation, I mean, that's, that's huge for turning back the biological clock.

It is huge. And some of this has to do with, you know, in its role in heart health is It's increasing circulation, it's supporting the health of the endothelial cells in the heart, which is so key. Of course, the gut microbiota wants heat. This is actually why in Chinese medicine, if somebody is sick, they recommend— they almost, for the most part, with most conditions, they recommend they eat mostly cooked foods like soups. You need to warm your digestive system. It works better being warm than cold. And then of course, stem cell exhaustion. I mean, that's one of the, you know, foundational keys of anti- aging so your body can create younger, healthier, newer cells. Um, so the way that I practice— so, so what I, what I typically do, and I'll just say it really depends on the time of year, but I use it the most in the winter, you know, um, you know, most commonly. But I'll get in typically a few days, it could be 2, 3 days a week. And some, sometimes my, my, um, a lot of times I just do 20-minute sessions. Other times I do 40 to 45-minute sessions. Um, but I like to get in in the evening, right before, uh, right before, after dinner, or first thing in the morning, you know, either, you know, right around even when I would work out, um, is, is the time I'll do it. Do it often too. And when I'm— if I ever get sick, which doesn't happen often, but maybe once a year I was traveling or something like that, then I'll get in every day, you know, around, around those seasons where I'm not feeling so well. And I always bring in a big, you know, at least 32 ounces of water and add in some electrolytes there. Or I'll do some watermelon juice or coconut water with a little sprinkle of sea salt in there. And so I'll frequently do that. I mean, almost every time I'm in there.

Sounds delicious.

And then depending on how I'm feeling, is sometimes I'll stretch in there because I have a larger sauna, or sometimes I'll just sit there and just, you know, pray or just relax or, um, or something like that. But that tends to be sort of the way I, I use the sauna.

So as Connie, Zach, and I have shared today, Sunlighten offers a wellness experience that just feels good. Infrared therapy is relaxing, rejuvenating, healing, and supports your body in ways that you'll want to keep coming back to over and over again. Whether your goal is detoxifying, reducing inflammation, recovering faster, supporting your immune system, or improving sleep, Sunlighten saunas can support you every step of the way. With options ranging from the compact Solo system to the higher heat of the Amplified sauna to the customizable experience of the Impulse Smart sauna, there's a sauna to fit your space, your budget, and your health goals. And something else that makes Sunlighten stand out is their knowledgeable sauna consultants. They will guide you through the entire process so that you can feel confident in making the best choice for your wellness journey. Take the first step towards feeling better today. Visit sunlighten.com today to find the perfect sauna for your home and transform your wellness routine. By the way, again, save up to $1,000 on your purchase this holiday season when you use the code AXE.

That's A-X-E. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. People always want to know, you know, best practices and things that work and, you know, why they work and You know, what I love is regardless of, of, you know, everybody's routine, I like— I love the fact that being in there, because it's a gentle experience, you know, you're— it's not excessively hot, so you can do other things. So you, you pick, you know, you pick which— if you want to do deep breathing, if you want to meditate, if you want to listen to this podcast.

I listen to a lot of podcasts. That's the one thing I left out. I absolutely do in there.

Yeah, you can do whatever you, you want to do. And what I always love by that is, is I'm getting 2 to 3 different benefits in one place. So, because I'm all about efficiency, so I want, you know, I'm getting my healing, you know, I'm getting the increase in energy at the cellular level with, with infrared. I'm also getting stimulated with the near-infrared light and helping with the brain and the cognitive function. And then by doing either deep breathing or intention setting or something else, you know, I am, I'm also helping to relieve stress, you know. And so both of those in the combination, I just feel when I'm finished, I'm— I feel so fabulous. And that's my goal is every day you just, you know, I want to give it all that I've got and then be all in. And, and it's hard to be all in when not feeling your best. And so this is a way to feel your best.

I'm, I'm curious, so again, you've been in the sauna industry longer than most people. I mean, 25 years, that's extremely long, and have had a lot of experience there. What are— maybe give me in ranking order, what are the top 5 reasons why most people purchase an infrared sauna?

The number 1 reason is detoxification, for sure, for sure. Um, people who for so many different reasons. I mean, we, you know, the list goes on and on and on. And it could be a condition, it could be Lyme, it could be mold, you know, it could be heavy metals. But for that is for sure the number one. And then after that would probably be heart health, somebody that wants to, you know, make their heart healthier. Decreasing stress is huge, you know, and, and mental health. I mean, and there's a lot of data now on depression. And interestingly enough, you talked about how the body is cold and, you know, most people have their bodies too cold. Well, the studies are showing that people that their body is too cold and that they can't, you know, have that thermoregulation. Yes. They are more depressed. But if you put them in an infrared sauna, it unlocks that key that's stuck And so then they're able to finally heat themselves up, but they haven't been able to heat themselves up, and that leads to depression and mental health. So that's a huge, huge factor. Um, for women specifically, as we get a lot of feedback, is, is, you know, what I call like the vanity, um, you know, reason of like, I just want my skin, you know, to, to look its best. I want the anti-aging aspect. I just wanna, um, I, I I want to reverse the biological clock. I want, especially when it comes to the skin and how you look. So that's a huge, huge reason. Weight loss is another one. Oh, and then the big one right now, huge, you know, is the immune system and just getting people healthier. So that, like, I love when you said, you know, I don't get sick. And, you know, I don't either. And really frequent people, when you use it all the time, your cells are stronger and they're going to fight off. They're going to be aware. It's like if you picture that you, you have, you know, your, your cells with armor on it. Yeah, it's going to be much harder for that virus to come in and, and, and survive. Like, because, you know, you're— they're gonna— you're, you're protected. You're gonna fight those— fight those viruses off.

There's so many benefits. So many. I mean, people are obviously buying them for the right reasons. And I think part of this is we're seeing more and more studies coming out and then people quoting studies. Everything— everyone from— of course, I talk about it a lot. There's Andrew Huberman, there's, you know, Ben Greenfield. There's a lot of people in this space who are up on the medical research, who are talking about the benefits of sauna use. And so it's, it's of course, as we talked about, really powerful. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about red light therapy. So you recently created red light panels. Yeah. And by the way, they're beautiful. Your red light panels are the most, um, stunning I've seen. In fact, I think if somebody comes into your house, and if they see a, uh, if they see a Sunlighten light panel, they're going to think it's a— it's decor. I mean, it looks really good. That's so— so yeah, you can— I mean, if anybody sees on video here, you can check it out here in the corner. I, I have one here that Connie sent me. So Sunlighten, and you can see the nice— well, what type of wood is that? Is that cedar or is it, uh— anyway, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful wood there. You can see within that. In fact, I'm— one thing, I'm actually next year I'm starting a a functional medicine clinic with both my brother-in-laws, and we're gonna work awesome. I do everything from infrared light beds to infrared saunas to all kinds of things. And, um, and I'll probably put that up on one of our walls as a tour with, you know, we're doing hyperbaric IVs. And so we're going to do a lot of things. But anyways, that'll be a— that'll be on our wall there. And well, people will use it too. Yeah, I'm saying it also looks stunning.

Oh, thank you so much. Well, inspired by— when you say like now we're doing things that are more inspired by nature, so the design of that literally was inspired by nature. So just bringing nature inside with the wood and, um, just the way we designed every aspect of it was to bring the outside in. And obviously the infrared as well as the just the wood sources. And, and we also have an app which is so fun.

Yeah, your, your app, I do want to talk about that because That's— it's, it's wonderful. I mean, the fact that you can go on there and there's all of these different programs from workout recovery to immune boosting to anti-aging for skin health, the heart health, uh, is, is fantastic. By the way, this is what I got my, my sister-in-law for Christmas. Um, she's in her 30s and she wanted to just continue to help her skin and age less and, and all those things. And so, I mean, these are great Christmas gifts. That's the other thing about, about about this sort of thing for, for people. Um, what are the benefits that you've seen with just doing— you know, obviously saunas are amazing, but also of just doing infrared light panels?

Yeah, so, um, number one I would say is the skin, like you just talked about. And that's one of the main reasons that people, you know, invest in, in red light and near-infrared for their skin. And this does have, on that note, that it has the combination, because the combination is really key for anybody who's listening. You really need both red and near. If you don't have near as well, you're not getting that additional depth of penetration. So, you know, you want to have both. And we have, we have both in the new red light panel. But that— what— how it works with the skin is it's penetrating, and so it is accelerating cell turnover. So it's also boosting the collagen and boosting the elastin in your skin, and it just gives you that wonderful, wonderful glow. You know. Um, so that's why most people— it also helps with reducing inflammation at the surface layer. So that's really important. Um, it also helps with sleep, you know, that having the red light.

And can I tell you, that's the biggest improvement I've noticed.

Oh good.

So I use red light for, for many years, and my sleep— my wife and I both swore by the sleep benefits. So what we try and do is do it right before, right after dinner, kind of in the evening, and it's been, been amazing.

That's awesome. It helps with energy, and specifically back to your explanation, which was so awesome, of mitochondria and why they're important, and, you know, why, like, you need to do something to make sure that you're giving— you're doing something to, to have as many healthy mitochondria as, as possible, because it's— they're so crucial for your, you know, your vitality. And red and near specifically will help give you that cellular energy again at the surface, you know, versus the far infrared is going to go deep into the body. But we are like, our whole body is like full of mitochondria. So the more the merrier, the more wavelengths that can impact our mitochondria and essentially give them more of a boost. I always kind of picture it's, you know, it's like the fuel that's going in your, you know, your, your body to give you more energy, to give you more more desire, more engines, you know, like a plane. You get more engines so that you can power yourself and power through things. That near and red are really great for that. So, you know, you notice you have more energy. That's probably one of the reasons it contributes to sleep. Yeah. You know, because you're more active and then you're going to have a better night's sleep. It helps with cognitive function as well. A lot of these wavelengths, Dr. Axe, they really, if you think on the simplest level, they're helping with flow.

That's right.

That's right.

So flow is— blood, oxygen, nutrients. It's critical to healing.

Critical. Right. It's a natural, you know, easy way, non-invasive, easy way to get flow back into your life. Some people can't exercise. Some people can't go on walks. Some people can't do things that would cause, you know, blood flow and increased oxygenation. So this is a great avenue for those who can't do those things.

Yeah. Or even those who aren't getting as much as they want or need to because we sit so much, or we're not— you know, it's something like, I want to say 100 years ago, maybe it's more like 200, but like 50% of careers had to do with some sort of agricultural work. I mean, so people were working outdoors, I mean, constantly. And today people are spending a lot more time indoors. So getting these forms of light is powerful. So, you know, what I found, as you mentioned, just to kind of COVID this again, doing red light therapy, whether it's an infrared light bed or a red light panel like you have here, which is so amazing, Amazing. Um, some key benefits: improves sleep, supports energy, supports reducing inflammation by increasing circulation and cellular turnover. So healing your mitochondria, your cells there as well. And then because of that, there's all kinds of numerous other benefits from there, from brain health and mood and, and all those things. You know, I, I have had people with skin issues like psoriasis, people with eczema, people with acne, people just with skin that was aging, and they, they've just, I mean, just seen such great results by using this. And, and I want to say too, I mean, you want to eat a good diet too, you do want to exercise. So don't just buy a sauna and say, well, now I'm not going to exercise, okay? But again, it's a great thing to do in addition to, to help amplify everything else you're doing, get loads of additional benefits there as well. And so again, and, and it was, is, it was, uh, I remember I told Jordan I was interviewing you. This was last time I had you on a show. And he's like, you know what? He's like, I know Connie. He's like, I've had my, you know, my Sunlight and sauna for like 20 years. He was like, I was one of the first people that bought one. And I can remember going to Jordan Rubin's house when he used to live in West Palm Beach, Florida. And the first time I went to visit him, and I want to say we got in the sauna there. And so he'd always be doing. So when I first met Jordan, he was just overcoming cancer.

Yeah, oh, that was horrible.

And he would, I remember part of his therapy was, I mean, he would do infrared like daily, but also he would do this green juice. And so he would do like this massive, massive thing of like lots of celery juice, cucumber, things with chlorophyll. And he would drink that and do sauna like daily for part of his, you know, and we're not claiming anything here. I'm just letting people know that that was something Jordan did. As part of his cancer, you know, fighting and cancer recovery, was doing a lot of sauna, a lot of sunbathing, a lot of time with doing a lot of these green juices, healing foods, prayer walks. And so, but it was part of his, um, you know, I think part of his protocol, um, there as well.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of green juice. Like, that's speaking my love language right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love celery. Start with celery, cucumber, ginger, lemon.

Love it. You know, one thing I'll just mention, last thing about Jordan here. Jordan, um, if you want to know what's going to be popular in the future, do whatever Jordan's doing now, or what he was doing 20 years ago, because he's such a trendsetter. Like, Jordan was the first person I ever met to do infrared sauna. He was the first person I'd ever met who was drinking kombucha. He was the first person I'd ever met who was really following, doing intermittent fasting and keto and all of these things. And so it's, um, again, if you want to be healthy in the future, just do what Jordan does, you know. Again, it'll probably be what's popular in 20 years. Yeah.

And he used to write these articles that, um, like our Sunlighten community like loved, but it was so not mainstream. I mean, it was essentially what people are talking about, you know, today, you know, was all back then. He would just talk about the importance of intermittent fasting, importance of infrared, the importance of, of nutrients and, um, flow and all, all of that stuff.

I mean, he's been one of the pioneers of popularizing regenerative agriculture.

Like, I'm not sure if you know this, but you know, there's, there's certified organic food now, we all know that. Um, but there's going to be a new certification. It actually is a certification, but it's not popular yet. It's called regenerative organic certified. It's called ROC, and that is like 10 steps above organic. So, so he's working now with Rodale. They have a fort 14-year study that's going on doing regenerative agriculture and how much more nutrient-dense the foods are, how much better it is for the soil, for the environment, but just healing our bodies. So in the future, people will buy food or supplements and it'll say regenerative organic certified, rock, which again is probably like 10x what an organic certification is. Wow. So much better for the body. But again, we're just, you know, uh, Jordan, maybe, you know, maybe you'll listen to this podcast and you'll, you know, you're Hi Jordan, if you're listening, I miss seeing you. But, um, but yeah, so again, what a, what a trendsetter of using, as we talked about, infrared light therapy here. I want you to talk to us about being really practical now, timing, and all the research you've read and all the, all the recommended recommendations you've made. Let's talk about light panels, and then I want to end with using an infrared sauna. What is the ideal time somebody should spend in front of a panel to get the results on a daily basis?

It's not a lot of time. And that's— so it's a really great question that you asked that because people sometimes, they, they get confused between, you know, light therapy and heat therapy. And light therapy is much shorter. Your body actually cannot absorb that many joules of light. So, so what we did is to make it super easy is on the app, we have different programs, and each program is time-based so that you just press press that and you don't even have to think about it. But it just ranges from a couple of minutes all the way up to probably 15. But it's not a lot, you know, and like once you do it, you're done. You know, you can't— it's not one of those things is longer is better and more is better because your body just can't— it just can't absorb it. So that's really, really important. But the important thing for people to know is on the app, all the hard work, you don't have to think about it. You just press the button and, you know, and you're done.

Um, but generally it's 2 to 15 minutes. I mean, most my sessions I've done are 15 minutes, which is sort of the max that your body can absorb when we're talking about the red light there. And then how about for the sauna? Um, what's the sort of— and I can give my recommendations too, I'd love to hear yours first on how you typically recommend people, let's say newbies getting started, and working their way up?

Yeah, newbies getting started is different than somebody else. Newbies getting started, I would definitely, would be like low and slow. Start, just start doing it. You know, 10 minutes is good. And then seeing how your body feels and how it, the impact, that's really important. As you use it, it would be nice, it'd be ideal to work up to 40 minutes. But here's what I'll say is, I have changed over the years in my experience, and I have noticed that even if I just do it for 10, 15, 20 minutes max, and a lot of times that's the max that I do, I still get the benefits and I still feel great. Yeah. And even if I don't have a copious, like, like really intense sweat session, I'm still getting that energy into my body. That you sweat is just the output. Yeah. But I'm still, that's still being absorbed into my mitochondria, still making more mitochondria. It's still helping increase the function of the mitochondria. Mitochondria. It's still, you know, changing my water molecules. It's increasing my circulation. It's increasing the oxygen to my brain. My brain gets so clear. So my— one of my favorite experiences is I just all of a sudden, it's like any fog or any chatter or anything that just is, you know, there from the day, um, it just, just, it just goes away. It's so cool. Yeah. So, um, so to answer it succinctly, as far as the heat, anything from 10 to 40 Um, the, the programs— we have programs inside the Impulse, and they're all, um, wavelength and time-based, and those range between 30 and 45.

Yeah, yeah. If somebody's just getting started, again, as Connie said, I think 10 minutes is a great thing to start with, and 15, then 20. So working your way up over time. And I think, you know, the temperature typically can get up in the 140s. I mean, that's commonly where you're going to land at. But I do know, like, with my wife one thing we wanted to do is support her body recovering with our— with her last birth from pregnancy. So we'd have her get in for just about 10 to 15 minutes, get her body just warm. Right when she started to get just a little kind of like, you know, sweat start going, that's when she'd stop and get out. Because you don't want to exert— you don't want to sweat too much just, you know, the month after, after giving birth. So we kind of were real slow with her, but it really helped her recovery, uh, in that way. So we just do, do 15— 10 to 15 minutes a day and, you know, the temperature were probably closer to 120 than the 140, and saw great results. But again, I think that starting slow, working your way up, doing 40 minutes, I think, every other day, is, is a pretty good sort of rhythm to be in, especially in the— and you probably need more in the winter, less in the summer. But I, I especially think that moving into fall, as you want to strengthen your immune system, it's a great time to do it. In the midst of winter, and then the spring for the detoxification benefits, is really probably the most important times for you to use it. And I do think even— but here's the thing, even if you just do it once a week, it's tremendously beneficial. So just do what you can do, even if it's 20 minutes once a week, you're still getting tremendous benefits. But I think to maximize, if you're sick, it's every day, or generally getting in about every other day for that 20 to 45 minutes is a really good rhythm for most people. And again, staying hydrated. Hydrated. Make sure you're drinking, if you are sweating a good amount, plenty of water, maybe a little bit of electrolytes in there will do your body a lot of good. Yeah.

And the other thing I would add, um, because you're given different situations, which I thought is really helpful, is if you're in a situation where if you're going through a lot of stress, you know, and your cortisol is up and, and you're just, you're in it, you know, and the fight or flight, you know, um, the sympathetic state, it's a good idea to get inside your sauna because it will totally bring all that down. And that's a time where you don't need a lot of time, because you will, you will notice a difference right away. So just if, if you're going through a challenge or, you know, having a conflict or anything like that where you can just feel your shallow breathing, you can feel that you're stressed, that's the biggest advantage to infrared, is immediately taking you out of that state.

I absolutely agree. And one other thing I'll mention, my patients I've had with like issues like Lyme disease and chronic fatigue syndrome, I don't want them doing 45-minute sessions every day. I like for them to do about 20 minutes every other day and getting to the point where there's a little sweat. But I don't want them sweating— I want them sweating a little but not profusely. Now, my toxicity people, I want them doing more. Okay, it just depends on what they're dealing with. But that's again the great thing about your app is you can go in there and just click on the program and it's kind of preset for you for a lot of these, um, you, you know, general issues as well. Well, Connie, this was so fun.

Oh, so fun! I'm so glad I came. This was great.

Well, good. It was an honor having you on again. I, I wanted to have you on because you've done such an amazing job over the last 25 years of being one of the lead educators and pioneers in infrared light therapy and infrared saunas. So thanks so much for coming on and all the good work you do. Just really grateful for you. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to having you on again next time. And thanks for. Again, I've been using your products for years. Jordan has. We're grateful for— I mean, we're always great. We always really appreciate because Jordan and I are really committed to creating great products. And you're probably the same. Like, when I create a product, I do it first and foremost for my family and for myself. Like, I want to create something with excellence because I want to enjoy it. And we have a really high standard of excellence, and we want to honor God with what we do as well. And I know Jordan's the same way. So I can tell with what you do in creating these saunas, I mean, they are the, the, the top of the line. Again, even as I'm talking about your infrared light panel here, it's the nicest one I've ever seen. You guys are using the highest quality wood. And so I love that you've created something with such excellence. And so just know I'm grateful for that. So thank you so much.

Thank you. I'm grateful for the time that we had today. Thank you very much.

Also, hey, I want to mention that Connie was kind enough to share a discount code for anybody who watches or listens to this episode. Is up to $600 off your next sauna purchase if you go to sunlighten.com today and use the code AXE— that's A-X-E— to get your big discount here this week.

All right everybody, thank you so much for listening to the Dr.

Josh Axe Show. Remember, each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles and how you can take your physical health, your mental health, your spiritual health to a whole new level.

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Listen, there are millions of people that could benefit through the power of using infrared light, red light therapy, and sauna therapy. This goes back so many years. We didn't even get into the studies in other countries and how it boosts immunity and increases lifespan. So there are so many benefits of this sort of therapy. So thanks for being on mission with me, and I can't wait to see you on the next episode.