Surprising Benefits of Cold Plunging | Mike Spivak

If you've been doing everything right, eating clean, exercising, but somehow you're still not feeling your best, your energy's dragging, your memory is slipping, and it's frustrating because you know there's more to your potential. Well, what if the issue isn't just in your routine, but it's deep down inside your cells? You know, you are investing in the best supplements, working out regularly, and sticking to a clean diet. But if your cells are stuck in what's called cell danger response, well, all the hard work might not be paying off as it should. Think of your cells like a house under renovation. You can bring in the highest quality materials like the best supplements and clean foods, but if the workers inside the house are on lockdown because of a storm, nothing gets done. The materials just pile up unused. That's what happens when your cells are in CDR. They can't fully use the good stuff you're giving them. Getting out of CDR, the cell danger response, is the key to unlocking your body's full potential. When your cells are no longer in protective mode, they can finally use the nutrients, hormones, and energy you're working so hard to provide. That's when everything starts to click. Your energy improves, your workouts become more efficient, and you start to feel like yourself again. Go to beyondbloodwork.com to learn how to break free from cell danger response and make the effort pay off. Hey everyone, welcome to Dr. Josh Axe Show. I am your host, Dr. Axe, and each and every week on this podcast, we dive deep into the science and principles behind how to grow in body, mind, spirit, and take your health and your life to the next level. Today I've got a guest with us today that you're gonna love. It's Mike Spivak, and he is the founder, co-founder of a cold plunge company called Kulture. And this is actually something I've been doing for about 2 years now, is doing cold plunge along with a lot of infrared sauna. And doing both cold and heat together has radically changed my life. It's improved my health in a great way. So I wanted to bring on somebody who is doing an amazing job in creating these cold plunge tubs, sharing how he got started in it, the benefits that he's seen with the thousands and thousands of people he's helped start to do cold plunge. We're going to talk about everything cold plunge today. We're also going to talk about things like Lyme disease. We'll talk about hypothyroidism. We'll talk about the conditions where cold plunging is the best for, and maybe some conditions where you wouldn't want to use it or where you'd want to add heat to the therapy to optimize those results. But really excited to have former hockey player here, amazing entrepreneur Mike with me today. Mike, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Excited to talk. Well, good. Well, I know you flew in from Canada today, right? Toronto?

Yeah. Awesome. Good flight.

Yeah. Great. Well, and I know you're from, you're from the Toronto area. We were talking about, I've got a, you know, some friends of mine that played hockey. We got the Nashville Predators here in Nashville. And I know you got into this whole cold therapy thing when cold plunging via being a hockey player, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think my relationship when I was doing cold therapy during being a hockey player was more from a physical standpoint. I was like, okay, my legs are sore. I need to get into the ice bath. And that was my relationship with it. And then over the course of the year, actually, after I stopped playing hockey, my relationship with cold plunging completely shifted. And it went from, okay, I need to do this for my body to recover. Now I'm doing it for more of a mental and emotional state. It was actually a spiritual tool for me that I was using at the time. Because I wanted to get more disciplined. And I was using it also during a time in my life where me going to the cold plunge was a sense of purpose for me. And that's why I went in and then I committed to it. And then I saw so many things in my life started to change internally and externally as I started to continue to cold plunge.

You know, I've seen this with a lot of people. There's a, there's a business guru that I love. Her name is Cody Sanchez. And so I follow her on social media and she talked about one of the greatest benefits for her was this. And she's already a very disciplined person, but this sense of discipline of being able to do hard things, I think that's one of the things people are experiencing with cold plunging is, yeah, listen, nobody wants to get a tub of freezing cold water in the 40s or 50s in the morning. Nobody wants to do that. But yeah, if you do that, you've done something really hard, maybe the hardest thing you'll do all day.

Yeah.

So then everything else seems easier. There's a, there's a personal growth expert who passed away years ago. His name is Brian Tracy. But I love— he used to say, eat the frog in the morning. Like, the thing that you don't want to do, that absolutely nobody wants to do, do that in the morning, or do that sometime during the day, and everything else gets easier. And I found that for myself too. Being able to start to do cold plunging has allowed me, even though I am a fairly disciplined person, has allowed me to be even more disciplined and say, okay, I can do hard things. It makes you more resilient. We're in an age today where I think that culture has tried to kind of, without us realizing it, soften everybody up versus what you've done. And this makes sense coming from a hockey player. It's like, no, we need to toughen everybody up. I'm constantly, I've got two daughters, I got a 4-year-old right now, daughter. And it's like, okay, we need to toughen you up a little bit, you know. And so anyways, yeah, let's get— you know, I, I'm starting off with like, you know, we're starting off with more like 70s rather than 80-degree water for her. But, uh, it's a, you know, it's a good— it's a, it's a good practice.

There you go. And your kids get to watch you do it too. I think that's the most important part, right? You're modeling it.

Yes. You know, it— this brings me to a point of what— of how I got turned on to culture, and I'd love to share that, and then I'd love to hear your story as well. But I had a life-threatening issue where I had a spinal infection. And this came about— some of the, uh, my audience has heard the story before, but I ended up going in to get a stem cell procedure. Something didn't go right, ended up getting an infection in my disc which got into my bone, then got by my spinal cord with an abscess. And I was told I might be permanently disabled. This was just, um, about a year and 10 months ago now, so it wasn't even that long ago. Yeah. And I was in this place where I thought, okay, I could be permanently disabled. But I really turned to God and said, God, I believe and know that you want the best for me, and I pray that you will just send me guidance and wisdom on how I can heal. And I ask for your healing as well. So I was very prayerful about this, and I got turned on to several different types of therapies, including a new type of stem cell. I got turned on to hyperbaric chamber, which was a really, really big part of my recovery. But the other thing I got turned on to was cold plunge but also doing it as a contrast therapy with a hot tub or with an infrared sauna. And so at first when I would just do a hot tub or a cold plunge, I, I felt maybe a little better at times, but when I started alternating cold and hot together, those extremes, I, I literally, my, my back felt radically better. Not like 5% better, like 50% better. Some days I was like, wow, this is really, really a big difference. Wow. And so I started doing that, and Kulture was the cold plunge that I started using myself to get these results. And the results were, again, just profound. Now I'm at the point where I'd say I'm about 90% better. Wow. I mean, I was totally permanently disabled. I'm not. I'm lifting weights. I'm carrying my daughter. I'm really— my health is significantly back, and I think I'll be back to 100% by the end of this year. But doing that combination of the cold and heat together, alternating, has again changed my life in a big way. So that's how I got turned on to Kulture, was I was looking into cold plunge tubs and I said, hey, what's the best and most convenient? And that's, that's how, you know, that's how I found Kulture. And, um, so anyways, it's been, it's been incredible for me to see the benefits. And one of the things I love about this contrast therapy of cold and heat is you're really increasing circulation greatly. And I even think back when I was a high school athlete, I played soccer, and I had a really bad ankle sprain once, and I remember I iced my foot for the first 48 hours after. And then the trainer there, she was a little more advanced. She then had me start doing cold/hot twice a day. And I remember recovering so much faster cuz I'd had one other ankle sprain before. It took a long time to heal and this one healed a lot faster from doing this, this method. And so I thought about my body's always responded really well to that. And I think most people do cuz I don't think a lot— most people don't have great circulation. And when you can bring in that hot and cold together, you're bringing in more blood flow, more oxygen. You're actually helping cellular regeneration when you're doing that contrast therapy. So anyways, I'm a big fan of cold plunge, but also I'm a big fan of doing the cold and the heat together as the ultimate form of therapy.

Yeah, yeah, I can agree. I could, I could do the same thing, but I started a little differently when I started my cold plunge journey and I really started doing it intentionally. There's also a difference between doing cold punching unintentionally and intentionally, and I, I learned that in a big way. But for me, I was doing it in Canada where it was -20, -25 degrees.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't have, I didn't really have too many options. And when I started doing it intentionally when I was 18, so this is about, I'm 24 now, 6 years ago. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do a 60-day cold plunge challenge. I got the chest freezer from my parents' garage, took all the meat and the frozen fish out of it. They weren't happy about that. So I had to go buy them another one so I could use this one. And I started doing it every single day. I was already into the practice of breathwork. Work. I have, uh, several certifications in that, and that's what I was doing before that. That was the world I was in before cold plunging. I was just all into personal development and growth, and I was leading workshops with a mentor of mine at the time, and I was kind of his right-hand man, just learning and watching and just providing a space, uh, for people. And that was with him, and that's what I was doing from the age of 18 until 21.

And now these were breath shock— breathwork workshops?

Yeah.

So tell me about that and some of the benefits that you've experienced in other people through through breathwork.

Yeah, the style of breathwork that I did was a unique style. I wasn't doing the Wim Hof hypoxic holds. I wasn't doing that end of things. I was doing more of the rebirthing. It's called— forget what it's called, but there's, there's words for it. Circular breathwork, rebirthing breathwork. It was more an hour and a half long, hour long. And it was designed to essentially allow you to untangle the emotions that live inside your body., and allow you to explore them. So that was— it is very spiritual practice as well. Um, but you want to do this when you're facilitated. It's very hard to do it alone. Um, and I started my journey there, and a lot of great things started to happen to my life, and I started to actually untangle and understand the emotions that were within me. And that actually allowed me to grow and become more mature as I kept going on, because I felt that the emotions in me that I didn't deal with early on actually stunted my growth, and I stayed there. I stayed as that 6-year-old kid that was still hurt. Um, so breathwork was a great tool for me to actually go into it and explore it and feel it and be with it and hold space for it. Um, so that was my world before cold plunging. And then COVID hit, and everyone's stuck in their homes, and I'm like, okay, let's get back into cold plunging. I need to bring something into my life that I can stay disciplined and stay attuned to, because during COVID you're at home and you can go back into your old habits so easily. 'cause I'm back in familiar environments. So I did it every single day. Each day was a different day. And the way that I approached it was I'm going to document how I'm feeling, what thoughts are going through my mind, and what emotions am I feeling before I go in, when I'm in it, and when I'm after it. And I documented that every single day on my, on my Instagram. And I remember at the time, my Instagram wasn't too many people. It was just my people in my community. Started off with people being like, you're crazy, what are you doing? It's -20 outside. Like, why are you going in the cold plunge?. And then slowly, slowly, 10 days, 15 days, people are like, I want to come try it. I want to come see what you're doing. Because I was also documenting how I was feeling. So I'm sure there was some inspiration there that, yeah, fought out from people.

So, so talk about that. Like, what were you feeling like, like before and after? What were some of the notice— no, no noticeable differences? Now obviously most of the time people talk about it physically. What were some of the differences maybe psychologically that you started to notice and some things you were working through, if you're okay talking about some of that?

Of course. Yeah. I think for the first bit of mine was I did not feel and think in the story that I was going through was I was not capable. So I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do something in the morning, specifically in the morning. That's very, very hard that I do not want to do, but I'm going to do it anyways and I'm going to commit to this. So for me, it was rebuilding my confidence and rebuilding who I am and what I'm actually capable of and what can I do. Because I was at a point in my life where my discipline was low and it did not feel like I was at the place that I really wanted to be.

You know, it reminds me of fellow Canadian Jordan Peterson. He talks about in his book 12 Rules for Life is that make your bed, you know, I mean, that's the first thing is just wake up and make your bed. This is like that on steroids, though. Making your bed, that is a great thing to do. You know, there's a lot of leaders. There's this general in the military who talked about how, I mean, it can, you know, if you're not a disciplined person, if you can just do that, what that does for you. But I feel like this is a whole nother level of— it's much harder to get in a tub of ice water, do all those things, than it is to make your bed. Now both are great, but this is the sort of next level of that.

Yeah, and, and actually, because I started to really be disciplined with cold plunging, now it actually started to trickle out through every other area of my life. Wow. So then I'm like, oh my God, my, my relationship with my parents started getting better. I was able to actually be around them without being triggered as much. I was able to be with my friends and be able to hold space for them. I was able to be a lot more mindful I ended up incorporating my meditation practice a lot more seriously because I was able to be more present and then I was able to connect to my breath more, which the cold plunge really helped me with.

Well, what a lot of people don't think and understand, one of the psychological benefits is you have to control something when you get in a cold plunge. You have to start to control your breath. Yeah, we know that your breath is very tied to your emotional state in that area of your brain. So when you get in a cold plunge and it's freezing cold, you have to start controlling that area. And that translates to then better controlling your emotions. And that can also correlate to being more disciplined. So, I mean, these are benefits I don't think a lot of people talk about. I think we're aware of, okay, reduces inflammation, it helps improve recovery, and it does all those things. But also the discipline, the mental aspects of cold plunge are something that probably go beyond the, you know, the physical there.

There's so— there's so much depth to it. There's so much depth that— and that's kind of why I'm saying people are like, yeah, like, I want to improve my energy, I want to improve my recovery. I'm like, Okay, amazing. Listen to what other people are giving guidance based on their personal experience, but also leave some room in your practice for you to explore a little bit. Leave some room for you to explore, um, because sometimes, uh, there's so much more that you can discover in the cold plunge that you may have not thought of or even was at it before. So for people, there's so much room to explore, and that's kind of how I entered the practice. I entered it from, okay, I'm going in with open arms and let's see what can come from it. And so much has come from it.

Yeah, it's so powerful. Well, one of the things I know you were sharing here is before we started filming was about how this has turned almost into a social club at your house. I mean, you started doing it solo and then more people and more people, more people. Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about how culture, your, your, your company was birthed and then how this started out of— I mean, it was your parents. Garage. Okay.

Yeah, I took it from the garage, put it in the backyard because it was wintertime. It was like December, so it was like -20 outside. So I wanted to make the conditions even that much harder for me so I can stay disciplined. And also I didn't have a chiller at the time, so that was the only way to make ice.

Got it.

So I started to do it every day. People started calling me crazy and then slowly—

And you were posting your journey online on your— what's your social channel on Instagram?

Yeah. Yeah. @mikey.spivak on Instagram.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, this was like 3, 4 years ago, and it went from people saying crazy to, hey, I want to come try it. And little— it started with one person, it trickled to— I had 10, 15 people coming to my house on a regular basis every week coming to do it. We do 50 minutes of breathwork, then we would do hot, and then we would do cold, and then we do a couple cycles of that. And it started to turn into a community thing, and I'm like, oh my God, like, this tool is bringing people together. This is everything I wanted. And especially this is also during the times of COVID where everyone was separated. And in Canada, it was a lot more extreme. So for me to have a tool to bring people together in a time where there's so much separation was very powerful. And people started to like magnetize to it. People, more and more people started to come and come and come. And then my business partner was living in Tulum at the time. You mentioned he lived in Puerto Rico. He was living in Tulum with his wife. And my brother was there at the same time and he went through 2 meniscus surgeries and he was also a very good hockey player as well, better than I am. And for him, being active was very, very important for him in his daily lifestyle. So he led to ice bathing. That's kind of what brought him back into it. And then when he was in Tulum, he was— there was no options. So that kind of led him down the path of, okay, can we create an option that can cool without me having to go get ice, is also convenient as well because he travels a lot and I travel a lot. So the portability was a big thing for us. But the most important part was the chilling aspect. We wanted something that can cool and filter the water. And then my brother was like, hey, Mike is right now in Canada doing Cool Punch workshops, bringing people together. You're in the mindset of building a product. Why don't you guys come together? So then we got on a call and we're like, hey, what's going on? What are you doing? What am I doing? And then we're like, hey, let's get together. Let's see if we can create this thing. And at the time there was no options. The only option there was, was the Plunge, and they launched, I think like 8 months before that. And then there was like Blue Cube and what all these other companies, but there wasn't anyone in Canada yet. And to get one to Canada was a little bit of a struggle, the shipping between logistics there. So we, we set out on a mission and it took us about 8 months to a year to develop the product. And there was no such thing as a portable chiller. Like now you go online and you see all these different versions. There, there wasn't. That at the time. Yeah. So we had to go to specific manufacturing and to actually build the prototype with them at the time.

Well, the great thing is, is that you guys, you, you're vertically integrated. I mean, you guys manufacture actually your own chillers. It's not being shipped over from China or another country. You guys make it yourself.

Yeah, we make it ourselves. And that was a move that we recently did and been working on in the last 2 years because we went on Dragon's Den in America. It's Shark Tank for the people that know.

Oh, okay. Oh, wow. You went on there?

Yes. Yeah. We, we went on the, the version of Shark Tank in Canada. In Canada. Dragon's Den. Yeah. And, uh, who was super successful. It was amazing experience, so much fun. And we actually got an investor. Not a lot of people actually go on the show and get an investor. A lot of people just talk about it, but they don't actually do it. Uh, we actually went on and got the investor. She invested in us, Michelle Romanoff, and it's been a tremendous partnership. She's, she's helped us a tremendous amount. And, uh, she's actually been part of the reason to why we've been able to build our own manufacturing facility and build the chiller that we have today. So there's so many steps along this entrepreneur journey that I did not expect to be getting into, but I, I did have the intention to always want to build in-house so that I can have the utmost quality. And that was the biggest thing that I knew, especially in an early emerging industry where there's not really big players in the game that, yeah, so there's lots of opportunity. Um, so going on Dragon's Den and getting that investment and then having that build us our own manufacturing and now be able to serve it to the community is Obviously been surreal.

I'm so happy. It's so great. Yeah. One of the things that I love, because I, I had told you, we, our family, we, we had spent some time between Puerto Rico and Nashville going back and forth. Yeah. And anytime we would do that, we could just, we could ship it, you know. And so it's, it's great that the tub itself, the Kulture tub, where it's able to— it's like the thick rubber, you know, condensed down, put it in a box, ship it, and, uh, and the chiller as well. So that's been, you know, I think one of the, one of the things that is great about your product versus others is being able to do that. So we've, we've definitely loved that as well. Yeah. But talk to me about— so you started having these people come to your parents' garage, do cold plunge with you, do the— do this sort of, you know, heat and cold work and breath work. Yeah. What were some of the things they started experiencing? I mean, I know, and I'm not asking you as a physician, I can talk to some of those things, but for yourself, what were maybe some physical changes you noticed in your body, or friends of you started noticing as they started to do more cold plunging?

So the first thing that I noticed when my people started coming over is every person that came left my house happier. And that was the first thing kind of where we started. And every time they said it, like, hey, like every time I come and do the cold plunge and hot with you, it's like I'm leaving my day and I'm having a fantastic day. I'm like, hey, like, this is amazing. Me too. That's what I'm feeling as well. Physically, I naturally have a very fast metabolism and going in a cold plunge boosts that up times 2. You can maybe confirm that. So I started feeling a lot more tighter, so I started actually to lose body fat. And yeah, actually I ended up going into my workouts and I was able to push a lot more when I cold plunge before because I was doing it early in the morning. So I would cold plunge and then I would go to the gym, I would exercise, and I would actually able to push more weight than I would if I didn't cold plunge. So those are some of the things that I noticed. And a lot of the mental fog for me to waking up in the morning and getting it, I actually didn't need to drink any coffee or any alternatives. So I would go straight into the cold plunge and then sauna and then go to the gym without needing the coffee. And that was something that I was drinking for however many years before that. So I mean, I can't even think of more than I had before.

Yeah, I mean, that in itself is great. How about some of your friends? Well, so obviously you said you know, they felt more happy, more energized. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's obviously a big part of it. I think for a lot of people, you know, cold plunging is going to bring down that systemic inflammation, and as you said, it's going to affect the metabolism. Now, both heat and cold do that as well. Yeah, is going to be very, you know, supportively in different ways, but support thermogenesis in your body. When your, your body has to expend energy— if you're, if your body gets cold, it's saying to itself, I got to heat myself up. Well, that takes energy. That's going to burn calories. And so that's going to happen naturally, correct, with, with both of those things, which is great. You know, I think a lot of times people think— I just want to, I want to share some of my opinion on the best ways to do cold plunge and, and heat, solo or together. One thing is, is that if you're going to do cold plunge, it's, it's actually ideal to do before workout or several hours other with weight training. Now, if you're out there and you're playing pickleball or you go for a run or a bike ride or any sort of cardiovascular work, cold plunging right afterwards is great. But if you're weight training and trying to put on muscle, you want to cold plunge right before, or wait about ideally at least 4 hours, if not 6 to 8 hours afterwards. Because if not, it can sort of restrict a little bit of, uh, anabolism with, with, with building muscle. But overall, I think starting off, as you're saying, first thing in the morning like that is a great way to do it. Or more towards the afternoon if you're kind of— if you work out like me, which is more of that kind of, you know, morning, kind of mid-morning time period.

Like, even I've seen with endurance-based athletes we did a partnership with the Olympic swim team of Canada. So we went there to deliver the product and give them the rundown of how it works and everything. And then we were talking to their doctors on, because they were the ones who create the protocols for the athletes, and they said their protocols was every degree is 1 minute. So if you're doing— so I'm in degrees Celsius, you're in Fahrenheit. So 10 degrees Celsius, we do 10 minutes. 9 degrees, 9. 8 minutes. And they would typically be around the 8 degree mark to 10 degree mark. And that was their protocol, and that's what they found best for their endurance-based athletes. Oh yeah, I found that interesting too.

Uh, yeah, you know, one of the other times I really started paying attention more to, to cold therapy and cold plunging was I used to be a big, big fan. I still love watching the Tour de France. Yeah, but I followed Lance Armstrong in, in those days, and he would do a lot of cold plunging afterward. I mean, he had a whole protocol that was, you know, everything from, you know, cycling a little bit afterwards and, and doing some cold plunge and things like that. I know, you know, LeBron James, after, you know, when he's in the playoffs, he tends to always do cryotherapy or cold plunge, something like that. So I mean, the world's best athletes for recovery are using cold plunge after athletic events. And I think that we're starting to see now high school, college athletes start to do that sort of thing to promote recovery as well, get those inflammation levels down. And so I love that you worked with those, you know, those Olympic swimmers, because it makes a lot of sense for them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We try and work with as many athletes as possible. Like even we work with— there's a big hockey trainer, his name is Gary Roberts, works with lots of them. And even they, they have different protocols and they would go in the cold plunge before go on the ice and after the ice. Oh, well, so like each kind of athlete has their own protocols with it, which has been really cool to learn from all of them because I didn't know these things before.

Yeah.

And it's so cool that I can go to them and learn, hey, what are you doing with the cold plunge?

Yeah, so yeah, it's amazing. I think just a note for everybody listening, I think if you are— one, it's always important to listen to your body. I recommend cold plunging for most people, but not for everyone. I would say if you've got a condition where your body temperature is low, okay, you're commonly in the 97s, not the 98s, you want to either avoid cold plunge and do sauna instead, or you can do some light cold plunging more in the 50s. You don't want to be down in the 30s typically, or even 40s, but do it upper 50s, but then combine it with right afterwards, or, or, or sort of sandwiching it in with an infrared sauna or a hot tub session. So you still can if you have low body temperature, you just have to combine it with heat therapy as well, um, if you're one of those people like, let's say, hypothyroidism. But for most people, again, and now, now here's another one that I saw people with great results with, and there's some studies on with sleep. Most— the number one reason why people wake up at night and don't sleep well is they get too hot. This is really, really common with people. Well, studies have shown even a cold shower also helps with this, but cold plunging especially, yeah, will help bring that body temperature down a little bit and it'll help you sleep better at night. So I mean, sleep is one of the most critical things you need to regenerate, to recover, to heal, to be, you know, to be able to think at your highest level. And so it's really good if you're a hot sleeper it's a sign that you probably need to be doing some things to regulate your body temperature. And that's where, again, something like doing a cold plunge is, is fantastic.

And I have some customers that would write me like long emails, uh, and some that deal with insomnia and some with a severe case of insomnia. And they said that ever since getting the cold plunge, they've been able to have a little bit better sleeps. Yeah. So that's probably— and there's probably a little deeper reason to the insomnia, but cold punching can definitely help with that. And I've seen customers that have had that before.

Well, there's always a deeper reason, but I think this goes back to part of the benefits there is when you're able to get in a cold plunge and regulate your breathing, which in turn helps you better regulate your emotions, especially if you're a person that's up and down emotionally. This is going to help with that, even though that may not be your intention. It is going to help with that. Now, should also people do some work on, uh, their spiritual growth and breaking free of the past and forgiveness and those things? Absolutely. I mean, we always want to go to the root source of the air, of, of whatever is causing the issue. But of course, again, as we've been talking about, this can also, also help.

Well, I think that's also why it's become such a widespread tool, because you can cold plunge without having any deep intention with it and just on a surface level impact you subconsciously without you even having to consciously know about it as well. So I think there's such a powerful aspect of it as well, and the fact that it's bringing so many people together. Yeah, I think that's why so many people on social media are posting about cold plunging is because they don't want to do it alone. They want to put it out there like, hey, who else is going through this with me?

Yeah.

And people can share and resonate together. And it's, it's, it's really a tool of like bringing people together as much as helping you physically and mentally and emotionally. It's, it's doing so many things at once, which is amazing.

Yeah, it's powerful. Yeah. You know, obviously you've done an amazing job starting this company. What do you see as the future? Obviously, I think COVID sort of sparked a lot of this. Yes. I think that, by the way, I don't love the word hacking, but it's the word that they use. Biohacking out there.

Why don't you like it? Why don't you like the word?

Well, I, I think it's very mechanistic in terms of thinking of the body as a machine. I think of the body more of this sort of holistic spiritual, uh, being divine and, um, being flesh and blood and not cold mechanical and mechanistic. And to me, hack in the way that most biohackers— I think even, even looking at what the people I know that kind of started using that term, mostly they're very atheistic or agnostic in terms of even their beliefs in the way they view the human body is probably very different than the way I believe it. So sorry, that's a pretty, you know, lengthy explanation there. Yeah, I believe that most of these things that we consider biohacking, or at least some of them, are us harnessing some, some of the benefits of nature.. So to give you an example is what I think is even better than infrared sauna is sunbathing. Now I love infrared sauna and in the winter it's like, okay, or if you live in Canada, yeah, you're not seeing the sun a good part of the year. You're not getting those in, those UV rays penetrating your skin, going deeper and they're warming your system. Yeah. And, and there's tremendous benefits of that. Well, what's the next best thing if you can't be out in the sun? Mm-hmm. Well, one of the next best things is doing an infrared sauna, you're getting some of those rays getting deeper in the tissues, helping activate mitochondria, helping you heal. So there's those benefits. You know, swimming in cold water is really beneficial. Well, if you're not going to do that, what's another great thing to do? It's cold plunge. If you're not going to be barefoot on the earth, what's another good thing to do? PEMF therapy or some of the grounding mats, those things. So, so my point there is, is I think it's us doing the best we can in our environment to get back in tune with nature and help regulate our bodies. You know, one of the things that I think we're going to see more in the future is people continuing to talk more about cellular medicine. And at the very top of cellular medicine, when you look at my— one of my biggest areas of expertise is Chinese medicine and studying the sort of history of Asian medicine and how that works. Well, they would put at the very top of the hierarchy in terms of how to hack or how to truly harmonize your body is balancing out your circadian rhythms. That's getting sunlight first thing in the morning, being outside a lot, doing some of those things. And that really helps regulate all these systems within our, our body. But hot and cold are part of that. And, um, and so anyways, I really— mine is, I guess, a little bit more of a philosophical standpoint of how we, how we care for the body when maybe we don't have access to or we can't get sunlight Again, that's where Asana comes in, or we don't have that, you know.

I'm curious— the great explanation, by the way, I love that. I'm curious, have you tested between doing a cold plunge in the morning or the afternoon or the night and see how you felt, including the contrast as well in that? Have you seen which one you've gravitated towards or felt better in the morning?

The morning. I, I think the reason is, and you've sort of mentioned this, the, the psychological benefits of what it does for the whole day, I think, is, is, is, is hard to replace. But I also do like it doing it in the evening as well. I mean, that's another practice we'll do.

Yeah.

Um, I, I tend to not do it in the midday because I'm doing things, whether it's stuff, either it's work or things with my kids. So for me, it's typically always more first thing in the morning or kind of in the evening, you know.

Uh, would you do 2 times in 1 day? Would you do morning and night?

You know, I, I haven't yet. Uh, I think part of it is due to my schedule. Yeah. And I, I will say this, and for any parents out there, I mean, when you start having kids, you just start to realize I, I have less time than I used to. And so it's more— it's not that I don't think it'd be probably beneficial, it's more for, uh, you know, just, just my schedule. Yeah. Yeah.

You gotta be very picky with your time, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

How many kids do you have?

I have two. I have a 9-month-old and a 4-year-old.

Oh.

Wow, it's a fun season. I just love, I love having kids. I mean, I, you know, I, I wish we would start having kids even earlier. I mean, I just, being a parent is one of the greatest joys ever.

Yeah, I can't wait. One day myself.

Yeah, it's great, it's great.

Yeah, my business partner just had it too, so awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just had one, so he's, he's going through right now. That's great.

Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's good for, yeah, when you're, when you're a parent, I mean, one of the biggest things parents always say is I, you know, there's trouble sleeping, you know, trouble. And, and one of the other great things about doing something like a cold plunge or infrared sauna at home, right, it's at home. You don't have to go anywhere. I mean, sometimes— and over time, like, there are a lot of therapies that are beneficial. There's acupuncture, there's massage therapy. I love chiropractic. I also love reflexology. There's a lot of different therapies, but most of them you have to go somewhere to do that, which I think is a good investment for people. But sometimes it's nice to have these things at home. And one of the great things about what you've been able to create is something that people could safely do in their garage, you know, in their basement, on their back porch, have a cold plunge. I think there's a lot of benefits there. And I feel the same way about sauna. I think having a sauna is great. I've used a lot of cold plunge and sauna together and just absolutely loved it.

Do you like infrared or do you like wood burning more?

Well, For, for the, for the benefits, I really like infrared. Yeah. And I've recommended it to a lot of patients because those infrared panels are going to help drive the heat deeper into your tissues. And so I tend to recommend more infrared heat. But do I love just an old school sauna where you're getting up incredibly hot and you're sweating more? Yeah, absolutely. So I've done both, but I personally own a, own an infrared at my house.

And it's indoors or outdoors? The infrared?

I have both of my— both of them are in my garage. In the garage of my house.

Yeah.

Amazing. Yeah.

Amazing. There you go.

Like I said, I love going back and forth. The sauna and the cold plunge together have been a game changer for my health and my family. And so we, we love doing the combo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love doing the combo too. When I started, I didn't have a sauna, so I was just only cold plunge.

Yeah.

And then I would have to heat myself up with movement exercises and breath.

Yeah. And that's great too. You know, there's a, there's a company we've worked with a few times and they have a infrared blanket. So that's a way to do it sometimes even more cost-effectively, right? You could do that. But of course, exercise and movement is probably the healthiest thing to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was recently at a friend's house in Winnipeg. He has one of our ProPunges. It's not the portable one, it's more of the luxurious model. And his routine was cold plunge and then lie down for 5 minutes. And then go into the sauna. Smart. Do you see any difference between going into the cold plunge, resting versus going to the cold plunge and then right into the sauna?

Well, I think, I think the benefit is you're going to let the cold set in a little bit more and you're also going to give your body the time to recover because it's more work on your part. I mean, your body, if you go from a cold plunge directly into a hot tub or a sauna, your, the, the actual product, the actual, um, sauna is having, is doing more of the work for you. Okay. Now I still think you're getting, and I think it depends on the person what's better. If somebody has a, an adrenal battery that's pretty charged up and they're, they're young and they're healthy and, and they're just, they're looking more for performance. Right. I think allowing your body to heat itself is a great thing. And I think it's an adaptable thing. But if I have a person who is, their, their constitution is very weak. I actually want to let the machine do a little bit more of the work for them because they need a little bit more of their body to use energy for other things. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's, that's the way I think about it. So I do think that, yeah, having somebody after they do a cold plunge not immediately try and do something to warm— well, I think physical exercise is fine though, or laying down. I think either one would be fine. Um, but that's, that's sort of my— the way that I think about it.

Yeah, I think it goes back to the point of each person should approach these therapies. Yeah, with what works for that, right? Listen to your body, as you said. That's right. So there's not one way that works for everyone. I get that question all the time.

It's true. I mean, I, I can tell you from my biggest focus is cellular medicine and personalized medicine. And with that personalization, and even, even the most accurate, long-lasting forms of medicine are all personalized. When you look at traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, They're very personalized approaches to health. And so, and, you know, I was thinking about this the other day. If when, when I look at people that have grown a lot in an area of their life, they're the people, people that have the greatest level of awareness. When I look at somebody, I really respect them spiritually. Yeah. They tend to be a pastor or a rabbi or a priest or somebody who would be hard to rattle. I mean, they have a very— they have this depth. And again, it's hard to rattle them. They have this spiritual discernment about them. But it's a high level of awareness. It's a type of emotional intelligence regarding spirituality. In psychology, where same thing as psychologists. I mean, they're sitting there watching people. Oh, this person. Oh, this person has this childhood trauma. I mean, they're able to— because they're very aware, right? The people that I've seen have the greatest results in their physical health, they tend to be very aware or learn to become more aware of, oh, this food bothers me. Oh, I do well with heat, or I do well with cold, or I do well with— I alternate. Yeah, they become more aware. So one of the greatest things anybody can do in order to improve their health, body, mind, spirit, any of those areas, is become more self-aware of what's going on within their body.

To, you know, to, to, to your point on personalization there, it's, it's the only reason why I've been able to muster up the courage to actually build this business. Hmm. Um, if you met me before the business, you probably would've thought no way, no chance. I even thought that that was the story that I was telling myself.

Wow..

So I had to rewrite that story. And cold plunging was helping me rewrite the story because it shocked my nervous system so much that it creates— you allow things to change. You allow like a rebirthing process in it. And there was other modalities that I did. Wow. But it's the only reason why I was able to do this.

It's such a powerful story because it goes back to this thing where I think most of the time people think if I'm going to change my life, I have to change everything outside of you. Yeah, but sometimes you just need to change one thing, and that one thing is like a domino. Yeah, and then starts to change everything else in your life.

Yep. That— it's so funny, in my business right now, we're, uh, we just did a workshop with our CFO planning for the whole year ahead and Q4, and a big challenge of, especially with me, my business partner, was there's so many things to do. There's a million things I can do to grow this business right now. There's this idea, there's that idea, and I don't know which idea might be better. And then it came down to, okay guys, we need to get better at prioritizing here. And that's going to be the key to success. That's right. Is having that focus and that focus on the priority that you really want to grow. And if you just really do that one thing consistently, it will actually grow to become what you dream of it to. So priorities and focus and not spreading yourself too thin is like a theme that I've had in the last like 3, 4 months.

I'll tell you, when I was able to see the largest level of growth in terms of businesses like Ancient Nutrition or DrAxe.com or any of these successes, it was because I decided I'm not going to try and do everything. You know, God has blessed me with a gift. God has given me this, this calling, this thing I need to do. And I'm not going to try and do a million things or be everything to everybody. I'm going to focus on what is the one thing I have to do to be successful, to help the most amount of people. I'm going to go all in on that one thing. There's great books about this. You know, Gary Keller's got The One Thing. The One Thing. You know, I love, uh, you know, essentialism. Um, and so there are some, uh, you know, Greg McKeown wrote that book. So, so there are some great books on this. Uh, but I, I do think that that is a— it's such an important success principle is what is that one thing you need to, you need to focus on and go in. And that's what you've done.

Yeah.

And done such a great job with this. What are some of the biggest myths that you see when people start thinking about cold plunging? That, that, like, why do people typically say, oh, I couldn't do that?

Or what are the misconceptions in terms of, uh, like, when it comes down to cold plunging? Like, why— what are people missing when it comes down to it? That's what you're asking?

Well, I'm asking missing, but why— I bet you've had a lot of people who— you've had a lot of people join you, but you've also had a lot of people not join you. Yeah, right. Like, what are some of the excuses of why people say, hey, I'm not gonna cold plunge?

Oh, I hear it every day because it's so funny. Uh, so a big part of our mission— I'll take it back a little bit— a big part of our mission as a company was to get as many people to experience the cold as possible. So when I first launched the company, I didn't run any ads, I didn't do any paid media, I didn't do any of that aspect of it. I was like, okay, I'm going to have 6 or 8 tubs with me and I'm gonna go do 60 events in 4 months. So me and my business partner just went like on a road show. We were just event after event after event, like getting people to the cold. We were doing wellness activations, we were doing trade shows and at every single one of these different types of activations, we always made sure to have water and to always make sure to bring the chiller and electricity so that we can get people in it. And I've heard people like, no, it's too cold. I don't want to do it. That's like, obviously it's like the biggest one. Poor, poor. Oh, I didn't sleep tonight. Oh, I didn't bring a bathing suit. So then I brought bathing suits and I brought towels. I'm like, well, now you don't have an excuse. So great. So like all of the excuses I've heard, uh, it's too cold. Uh, I didn't sleep too well. I didn't drink enough water, which actually I've learned with myself is the amount of water that I consumed the day before actually impacts my cold plunge experience the day, the next day. So my hydration levels actually impact how well I interact with the cold that day. And sometimes if I didn't drink enough water, then I would need to do a little bit more breathwork practice before versus if I came in hydrated, I wouldn't need to do that much breath practice. And that was just for me. Yeah, that's what ended up— I was seeing. Have you seen anything like that in terms of your nutrition and your hydration?

Well, it makes sense. Listen, if you're going to recover from anything, part of what— when you're cold plunging, you have to recover afterwards. When you do any type of extreme cold or heat, there's a recovery process. If you're hydrated, right, you're going to recover better. If you're following proper nutrition, you're going to recover better. So, I mean, it just— yeah, that makes sense.

Okay. So, okay, so I was on to something.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now, most people would only think of that when it comes to heat because you're sweating, right? But, but obviously your body's having to heat itself up, right, when you get cold.

So, and it needs to work times 2.

Yeah, so, so for that to happen, your, your body is going to go through more water and electrolytes. And so that's— yeah, absolutely makes sense. Yeah. You know, one other, one other thing I wanted to ask you is, when you, you were, you were on the cutting edge of this, okay? When COVID came, you, and you've cold plunging before. You saw this wave starting to rise, wanted to help people with this. You were able to do that. What do you think some of the future of, uh, plunging— well, yeah, cold plunging, but I would also just say, you know, I, I consider this a form of regenerative therapies. Cold plunging, what's the future of that? And also maybe what's the future of just, you know, regenerative therapies in the future?

Cold plunge has been around forever. It's just not like something—

right, yes.

I just like, we kind of like dug it out of the grave a little bit, uh, but it's always been there and people have been doing it in Eastern cultures for very long. My business partner is Russian, so he was doing it when he was in Russia. Oh yeah. Dad, like, they call it the banya, which is the sauna, and he would be doing that like age of 3, 4. And he remembers experiences of that, and that was something that his dad purposely took him through. So cold plunging has been around forever. I think now it's just the Western culture is now getting it, and now they're understanding the therapeutic benefits of the cold. So I think we're just starting and I think the health phenomenon is going to keep on going, God willing. This has been like the best trend ever.

It's so great.

There's been so many other trends and, and, and popularities that have happened that have not been so beneficial to mankind and humankind. Like, so many people are really getting a lot from this trend that's happening and they're being exposed to new— what was the word you said?

Regenerative. Well, yeah, it's regenerative therapies, right?

So people are getting more exposed to that. So I think, uh, there's a bright future for it. I think it's just the beginning. I don't think we've hit the top of the mountain yet, and I think there's a lot more innovation to come through too. Yeah, it's just the beginning of the tech.

Well, yeah, there's all kinds of things people can start to do with hydrogen water or other things, or it just— yeah, I mean, there is, there's a lot of interesting things I think that can be added on and as additional benefits. You know, I was going to tell you, we had, um, Riley Gaines on the show here. Okay. And she told me a story about— do you know who she is? She, she is, uh, uh, she, she is one of the best swimmers and was one of the best swimmers in the country, won, uh, women's Division I, um, national championship in, in swimming. But there was, uh— anyways, this is getting very political, but, but it could be. But the point I want to point out is she's an amazing a world-class swimmer, and her dad was an NFL, um, uh, played in the NFL, and a bunch of her uncles. So she comes from this line of, you know, amazing athletes. But her dad, she said, I remember my dad having me cold plunge when I was like, you know, in elementary school. We were at a hotel before a swim meet, and he was like, okay, dive in. I mean, he was always trying to do things to strengthen her mind and her will and her body. And again, I remember seeing these videos online of these Russian parents trying to toughen up their kids. Yeah, putting their kids in these ice baths and they just dunked them and then took them out. So it's not like they were sitting in there for 5 minutes. And some, I mean, I'll tell you today, the world's crazy. I mean, I think some parents would see that as being, I hate to use this word, abusive. Yeah. But, but it's not. I mean, having your kid, listen, if it's not doing long-term harm to them. Yeah. If it's actually strengthening them long-term, it's, again, it's, this is a principle of success. Short-term discomfort or pain.

Mm-hmm.

For becoming better in the long term. Yeah, right. It's this— it's sacrifice for the future gain. And so it's, you know, that's an example of that. It's an example of doing that with our kids. Now, listen, I'm not condoning or telling you right now and taking legal responsibility for telling you to go, you know, dunk your kids in ice baths. But again, I think that if I, you know, as our kids get older, there will be a time where I'm going to have them do hard things, likely getting in cold, freezing cold water, whether that be an ice, you know, cold plunge or something else, in order to toughen them up mentally and improve their physical health long-term, their recovery in sports. So I, I think that we're just going to continue to see more parents do these sort of things even with their kids.

And I would— for the kids, I would make it playful.

I would— that's right.

I wouldn't make it exactly this whole serious thing. I think with kids, you just keep it playful the whole time. Let them put their hands in, you know, let them play around down with it.

So, so my dad growing up was a semi-pro water skier. Yeah. And he, in Ohio, when you got around Thanksgiving and Christmas, I mean, the water was, you know, definitely in the 40s. I mean, it was cold.

Yeah, that's cool.

And, but he would go and water ski on Thanksgiving Day, sometimes Christmas Day. They did New Year's Eve ski sometimes. And so I remember seeing my dad doing that growing up. And so sometimes, you know, we would run and jump in the water and get out because you want to challenge yourself. And so, you know, we grew up doing it in a fun way too, you know, freezing cold water, uh, water skiing. But, uh, it's, uh, that must have been, uh, tough.

I can't imagine because the shards are like icicles almost.

Well, you know what, typically in Ohio the ice wouldn't freeze until— well, you couldn't drive the boat if there was ice on the water.

Oh no, I mean like if you're like— the boat's going so fast and when the water's hitting you it feels like it's almost—

oh yeah, no, that's— it's freezing.

It's freezing.

I got a tough dad. That's good for sure. Yeah, he— yeah, barefooting and then water skiing, we— it was a lot of fun growing up. So, so fun.

Do you water surf, like wakeboarding?

Yeah, we do that now actually. I just went with my family here a couple weeks ago. And so yeah, we love wake surfing. That's where my wife's family grew up doing that. So yeah, my dad being a semi-pro water skier, we— I can't think of a vacation growing up where we didn't spend on a lake almost. I mean, at some point.

That's amazing.

So it was, it was a lot of fun.

I was the opposite. I barely went to any cottages growing up, or like lakes, or I, I didn't— I wasn't around that area. We were just focused on playing hockey, and my parents were just focused on providing for the family.

Yeah. Uh, yeah.

And giving everything to their kids. That's, that's my parents' legacy.

So, well, it's so great. I mean, having parents like that, that again, and I, I think that that's what, that's what good parents do is they sacrifice themselves, but they also teach you how to sacrifice comfort in order to, to, to, to grow in the future. And the best parents I know, they have their kids do hard things. Yeah. You know, and so that's a, but they make it fun too while, while, while doing it. And so I, I love, I love that. Well, I want to say congrats on all your success again, and I want to say thank you. I've benefited so much from this technology you've created in the cold plunge tub, and it's really helped my physical health. I've recommended it to a lot of people. And so again, just thanks so much for all the good work you're doing. And Mike, it's been just a joy to have you on. Let everybody know where they can find you, maybe a little bit about your, you know, about what you're doing at Kulture as well.

Yeah, so thank you. I'm happy that you're using it. We got to get you into the new, uh, Chiller Pro. We got to get into it. Let's do So I think you're going to, you're going to get that one too. So yeah, go find us on Kultr.com. We got a wide range of cold punches. We have the one that Josh has. He has the portable, I think you have the barrel style, right?

Yep.

Do you prefer?

I definitely prefer barrel. Yeah. So there's different. You can either kind of lay down and do it or sit up with your arms over. I prefer that. For sure. I like the barrel.

You know, I've seen out of my customers who've gotten either the classic, the more traditional lying down or the barrel. I've seen more of the athlete approach going after the Barrel, and then the Classic is more for the general population. Yeah. I personally love the Barrel 'cause I like the activation of dunk tank. Like you're in it.

Me too.

You're not moving. Yeah. There's no going in or cheating or anything like that. So yeah, we have different styles like that. We also have the Pro Plunge, the more luxurious one. It's more of like an all-in-one, all the mechanical systems, the chiller, the piping is all built within the unit., and then it also has Wi-Fi enabled as well. So that's more for if you want to leave it there and that's your one and only system and you want to put there, that's, that's a good one for you as well. Then we have like smaller, more portable units as well. So yeah, thank you. Thank you for using the product. Thank you for supporting.

Yeah. And just so everybody knows, just spelling-wise, it's Coldture. So C-O-L-D-T-U-R-E, coldture.com. There you go. And, um, yeah, again, thanks so much. And where, where can people find you on social media?

They can find us also, Kulture, C-O-L-D-T-U-R-E. The name behind Kulture is actually pretty funny.

Oh yeah, let me hear it.

It's, so our first name when we first launched was actually named Kult Tribe. And then a month in after we launched and we already created so many units with that brand on it and like everything was branded around Kult Tribe. In Canada, the indigenous population, it was restricting us from doing partnerships with certain people school because it felt like it was offensive.

Um, but the thing is, is that, um, I could get on a political, you know, just, you know, I'll pass on it now, but go ahead.

I think you might like this. The person who actually told me this, what— I don't know if they were Indigenous or not. Um, so I went and I asked a bunch of Indigenous people, do you have a problem with this? And they actually said no.

But of course not.

I ended up being like, you know what, we're a month in. It's better to change it now. I just won't deal with it. There's no point of fighting it. So then it took me like 2, 3 weeks. I'm like, wait, we got to change your name now. But then I just ordered like hundreds of thousands of units. Like I have inventory of Cold Tribe, like everything's Cold Tribe. I'm like, okay, like we're going to get—

it's okay. Yeah.

We can still launch it, you know, we can still go. And then my wife's business partner and we were all talking, we're like, okay, cold. Like I still want to keep cold in it, but I still want to have the aspect of community because it's such a big pillar of our business. Yeah. So then it was like, okay, cold, culture, put into one name, Kulture. And I was like, okay, here we go. Then we changed everything, rebranded it, went through that whole thing. So yeah, that's the story of Kulture.

It's fitting because when this was birthed out of your parents' garage, it was— you created a culture and a cold-chur. And so I love it. Yeah, exactly. It's fitting. Well, Mike, thanks so much for coming on today. Everybody, I hope you've enjoyed this episode on the benefits of cold plunging. And again, I encourage you, take the— here's the other thing, you don't have to get in for 20 minutes. I mean, 3 minutes sometimes. You start off with 1 minute, get in, get cold, see what it does for you. And remember, for some of you, you want to combine it with some heat as well, or some weight training, some things to generate more body heat as well. But loads of benefits, as we've talked about. Lots of more and more scientific research is continuing to come out. Out on the benefits of cold plunging as well. I also want to encourage you, you can go to coldture.com, that's C-O-L-D-T-U-R-E, coldture.com, and get $200 off today when you use the code AXE. That's A-X-E. So again, coldture.com, order your tub, that'll be $200 off today when you use the code AXE. That's A-X-E. I want to say, hey, thanks so much for listening and watching the Dr. Josh Axe Show. Remember, every week I'm diving deep into the science and principles behind how you can take your physical, mental, and spiritual health to the next level. Hey, don't forget to share and subscribe if you enjoy this episode. And hey, if you are a cold plunger yourself, let me know on social. Uh, let us know. We would love to hear from you if you have done it or if you're gonna do it in the future. Hey, also, I'd love to hear from you parents. Have any of you ever, you know, ran in a cold lake with your kids? Are you encouraging your kids to do that? Hey, would love to hear from you as well. Thanks so much for being a part of the show and for sharing and be on mission with us. I'll see you next episode.