The Real Reason Your Gut Won’t Heal (And How Bone Broth Fixes It) | Dr. Kellyann Petrucci

One sip of alcohol for most women in perimenopause or menopause often sets the signaling off in the body where you're up all night or you fall asleep for 2 hours and that's it. It's got to go.

Today, when I see some of these influencers online, it's like, okay, let's start doing an hour cold plunge. We're going to go and do a parasite cleanse. And I'm like, okay, well, that's a terrible idea. Strengthen the body first.

If you think about the gut microbiome, there's as many microbes as there is blood cells, or maybe even more. Each individual could have 100 different diverse species in their gut. No 2 people have the same.

Everybody needs something uniquely catered towards them.

They do.

Every nutrition plan, every supplement plan is totally different.

People in general now have more digestive issues than I've ever seen. Why do you think that this is?

I think number one is chronic stress, and I think it's phones. If you're on your phone, you're more in a fight-or-flight state, especially if you're scrolling. Your body is not resting. Part of what it takes to heal is rest.

My son had terrible acne problem, couldn't figure it out. He started letting go of tightness and started being much more faith-based. You want everything flowing like a river, not like a swamp, not tight. He started letting go of a lot. His acne went away.

When I first started, 99% of medical doctors thought that practicing nutrition was absolutely useless.

The first half of my career, all I did was convincing. I was in the convincing business. Mother Teresa would bring bone broth into hospitals to open the gut to healing. How many proteins do you know that do so much? People talk about peptides. This is the ultimate peptide.

That's right. If you're looking to improve your skin health, your hormonal health, and your gut health, today I've brought on— she's called the Queen of Bone Broth. Her name is Dr. Kellyann Petrucci. And I've known Kellyann for a really long time. So excited to have her on. We're going to walk you through today How to Heal Your Body Using Food-Based Medicine. Dr. Kellyann, welcome to the show.

Hey, I'm so glad to finally be sitting in this chair. It's about time we did this.

I know. Well, again, we were talking, I mean, I don't think I'd seen you for maybe 8, 9, 10 years.

I mean, and it's so funny because everybody goes through these cycles in life where you see everybody, you see everybody, you see everyone, and then people silo off, and then you see everyone again. It's kind of how the health people, we all cluster.

Yeah, yeah.

We go back, we bob and weave.

Well, it's so funny 'cause I remember in a very similar fashion, this is probably back in 2016, I was writing articles and speaking about bone broth and collagen. You were doing that. And there are some other great people in the space I know that were also starting to talk about it too. Everyone from Jordan Rubin to Dave Asprey to Dan Pompa, a lot of people talking about it. But you and I were 2 of the people that just started using it with patients to help them heal from chronic digestive issues and, and a number of other problems. And so anyways, but that was probably the last time we talked. It was that long ago.

But I think that the tentacles that you and I have is that, you know, when you're creating something, You're creating a category, not, not a brand, a category, trying to educate people on something they never heard of before. 'Cause remember, we started this how many years ago? Did anyone know what bone broth was? They didn't know.

No.

They had, they had no idea. And when I was going to the publisher and I said, I wanna call the book The Bone Broth Diet, it was so nuanced. They said, no one, listen, no one's going to buy anything called bone broth. And I said, well, what would you have me call something that's actually bone broth? And they said, well, call it soup. How about better soup? So, you know, that was where I decided—

Yeah, I don't know about that marketing advice. That's, you know, I think bone broth— well, let me say this too. So to your point, back then, I mean, when I thought about bone broth, the only thing I knew about it was, or the only thing a lot of people knew about it was many years ago, was it's used in soup. But to your point, bringing up the benefits of how it was used historically and traditionally and all of the amino acids and All the cultures. Even cultures.

I mean, when you study it from, you really study the history, and you study cultures, and you study tribes and bands, and the, that's what really pierced my attention. Because I said, this is actually part of the fabric of human history.

Yeah.

I mean, it's so far beyond just something. I mean, just calling bone broth soup is like, you know, calling the Mona Lisa that girl. I mean, it has that much cachet to it.

Wow.

But when I started testing it on, in 3 different cities, and I started using it on patients and myself, I realized, and I didn't quite know why, it took many years to really figure it out, but I knew it pulled a lot of health levers, and I knew it was something that needed attention. And so I was very impassioned by helping reconnect the public to something that I knew was extraordinary.

Yeah.

And so it was a full-blown obsession.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and to your point, I mean, I, you know, I remember one of the first articles I wrote on it and really looking at the benefits of skin immunity.

Yes.

I mean, that's one of the things, right? Chicken soup has been consumed, which is chicken bone broth, which has been consumed for, I don't know, thousands of years for supporting the immune system. And I really got turned onto it as well because I started, when I started writing about it, I started having people I worked with, uh, patients start doing a bone broth fast where they would just drink bone broth and herbal tea.

Now you're talking.

Yeah. And do some intermittent fasting with it. And the results people were seeing for overcoming inflammatory bowel disease, of course, weight loss, a number of things were just fantastic.

That's my— one of my favorite uses for bone broth is fasting. And when we think about fasting, oftentimes we think about a very different kind of fasting. But what everyone has to know about bone broth fasting is that it does turn on that intelligence, that central cellular intelligence, as does a water fast, which is autophagy. This is not— this will not promote what we call autophagy, or at least the studies aren't clear. Some studies say that bone broth fasting will maybe slow down autophagy, which of course is— that's when all of those broken proteins, all of those dead cells, they're all recycled and your body gets rid of what it needs to get rid of. and it refurbishes what it needs to refurbish, but there's something in the body, a protein signaling, mTOR. And so, when we take in any amino acids, those, that mTOR signaling is turned on. And so, what that means is your body says, I'm going to build, I'm not going to recycle. There lies in the whole debate about, is bone broth really fasting? Everyone has to understand that longevity is not just one coordinate, there's many.

Right.

So, to look at fasting and the benefits to only be something that promotes autophagy, we're, we're not doing ourselves a service because it does so much more.

Yeah, well, it's interesting. I think it really depends upon the person because like when you look at, um, you know, one of the things I've really enjoyed studying is Chinese medicine and looking at— they call this thing the yin and the yang. And the yang is really tied to being anabolic, tissue regeneration, increasing mTOR, to your point, where the yin is really tied to that cleansing, detoxification, um, you know, boosting those pathways that support getting rid of those senescent cells and cleansing in that way. And so you're right, amino and protein, they are building. I mean, that's really what they tend to be doing. And what do they build more than anything? Collagen, right? Those sort of things in our body, hence it being so good for your skin. Your gut lining's made of collagen, some of these areas. Uh, I, I am curious, what are some of the maybe more surprising benefits you've seen as you've put, put people on higher doses? And by the way, I'm, I'm curious, you know, when you get people on bone broth, what is the dosage that you tend to recommend for most people?

So if somebody just says, you know, Dr. Kellyann, I just want to get some benefits, 2 cups a day are where we kind of see that mark.

Yeah.

Of greatness, we'll say. But when people do bone broth fasting, maybe 2 days a week, they fast with bone broth during the day, they have one light meal at night, very specific type of meal, then they have more. But just for a foundational dose, we say 2 cups a day. And that's what I've noticed from doing this for so many years. I start seeing that people have the improvements to get the benefits. And so, the surprising benefit, I would say, for me, is when you're talking about the gut lining, we just talked about that, that's a barrier in the body. And we have these barriers in different parts of our body, but we often don't think of it as that. And this barrier is actually the thickness of one cell wall.

Yeah.

Okay, that's how thin this is. So, a lot of the health issues that we're seeing, or people are uncomfortable, and they can't seem to get the fix, it's because their gut lining has been traumatized in some way, some way. And it's so thin that the thing is, Josh, it's easy to do. So what I love about bone broth, and I would say the highest good that I see, is that I noticed that over time, I see improvements in people that I know that their gut lining is starting to heal.

Mm-hmm.

So with bone broth fasting, and you're flooding your body with all those nutrients and all that goodness, specifically to really get that microbiome really in order. And one of the highest orders of the microbiome, we know it's digestion, but it's so much more. The other order is to repair the gut wall.

Yeah.

So in a sense, by having bone broth, by improving the microbiome with all these other elements, like you said, immunity, 70% of your immunity. Well, what is— what does a healthy biome do? It says, I am going to give you the intelligence to know whether something is good or bad. That's what your immunity does. It's an intelligence that says, this is healthy for you, or this is not good for your body. So, you want all that turned on. So, the benefit that I see from bone broth or collagen, even collagen specifically, the benefit that I see is, my gosh, how many things do we know that can go in and really do the work for you, healing that gut wall that, again, is this, thickness of a single cell. So that's what I love the most about it. I feel it's one of those things where when you're talking, you see a patient and you're doing nutrition with them. Sometimes even in nutrition, when you're using the most natural, you're throwing a dart against a wall because you say, okay, well, this is almost like an algorithm. I know that I've seen this many patients and this, for this symptomology, this oftentimes is very beneficial. But the confidence that I feel with bone broth and collagen, the whole idea of collagen as we're speaking, is very different because I know what is going to go in there and do for you, which is get that microbiome signaling in the way it should and start healing that very, very thin gut wall and really talking to your immune system. So your immune system has the force that it needs to say, yes, this belongs in the body, no, this doesn't. And then you have that gut wall, that barrier that will let in let things in and out as it should.

Yeah, yeah. And when you look at the profile of, of bone broth, it's really unique. It's got this proline, hydroxyproline, a little bit of glutamine, also glycine. You know, this is one of the things where, you know, when you're talking about does it count towards a fast sort of idea, I think that proline and, uh, hydroxyproline, these tend to be maybe a little bit more building. One of the unique things about glycine though is glycine actually is a natural detoxifier. It's a natural cleanser. I mean, it may have benefits at clearing senescent cells. Glycine's critical for creating glutathione, your body's master antioxidant.

And boy, does glutathione make a difference.

Yeah. And I remember reading a study saying that when there was a study done on numerous amino acids, and I want to say glycine, I don't know that was the only one, but it might have been the only one in the study that showed that it actually increased longevity.

Well, this is why glycine— I can talk about it all— it's my favorite. It's what I call the great oxymoron, because not only does it help you restore and help you feel restful, but it also revitalizes you at the same time. And part of the reason why it can do that, I believe, is because there's studies that show that it helps you hold on to lean muscle tissue. That's why I think that it's such a big longevity hack. So glycine is beautiful, and glycine works better when it's in combination with other things. That's why it tends to work very well in bone broth. And by the way, everyone, this was not supposed to be a whole talk about bone broth, but see, we love it so much.

Yeah.

We can go on and on. And talk about bone broth and collagen. Because, again, speaking for myself, I was obsessed, obsessed since day one, and I still remain obsessed.

Yeah. And we'll continue to talk about it a little bit during the show. I do want to get into gut health, some other things we can do here, and, and hormones like menopause and some things here too. So, so as we talk about gut health, yeah, well, and bringing this back to collagen one last time, you know, when you look at the gut lining, part of what it's made up of, that sort of lining of tissue is Collagen.

Yes.

I mean, you know, and so, so it's important that this ancient Chinese principle of like supports like, if you wanna support an organ, if you wanna build muscle, what do you eat? You eat chicken breast, you eat the muscle of a chicken, you eat the muscle of a fish, you eat the muscle of a cow, right? That's what that is when you're getting that source of protein, and that helps you build muscle. A very similar way, you wanna build collagen, you wanna build your gut, that's what you need to get there.

And so— And bone too, and bone. People are talking all about, how do I build my bone? Talking about menopause, perimenopause. One of the things that we lose as estrogen declines, we certainly have issues with bone health. And we're learning more now than ever. Another reason I have to just give it another cred.

Yeah.

We know that collagen, the tight one, is the most abundant in the body. 90% of our protein is that, is of that, but also bones and being able to drink something that's simmered bones, that helps bone health. And let me tell you what an issue it has been for women, especially when you track it through a DEXA, And you can really see what's happening to women now more than ever, with some of the therapies that we're using, even more of a decline in bone health.

Yeah, to your point, I think, I think it's 1/3 of all the protein in your body. Think about that, your entire body, 1/3 of it is collagen, and 90% of that is type 1 collagen. And there's more collagen in your bones than not only calcium, but all minerals combined. So to your point, for menopause, It's incredibly important. We're gonna get back to menopause. Let's jump into gut health.

Yeah.

When you're taking care of somebody coming in, and, and I, I continue to see gut health issues more and more. I'm starting to see, I think part of what's actually causing more gut issues even today than ever before is chronic infections like parasites and a number of those problems too. But when you have somebody come in with gut issues along with something like bone broth, what are some of the other supplements, the foods, some things that you do to help somebody heal if they're coming in with IBS or bloating or SIBO? Some type of gut, gut issue. Hey, I want to ask you for a favor, and you may know this, you may not know this. Pre-orders make or break a book launch. So if our new book, myself and Dr. Will Cole, Heal Your Cells, has been on your radar, now's the time to order it. And here's what I have for you. If you go to healyourselvesbook.com, I'm going to give you over $500 in free content bonuses, including A cellular peptide guide. You may wonder, hey, how do I use peptides? I walk through every peptide, how to use them, the dosage and everything there in that guide. I also have the ideal supplement guide for cellular health, reversing organ aging, promoting longevity. You'll get that for free. Also, you'll get a Heal Yourselves masterclass where myself and Dr. Will Cole dive deep into advanced nutrition and healing principles, and also 40 incredible longevity recipes. You'll get all now. That's $500 worth of content for free if you go to healyourselvesbook.com and get it today. Now, there's one other bonus I want to give you. You can also get an at-home blood work kit that goes through cellular markers so you can actually see what are your levels of inflammation, what's your blood sugar, are you deficient in key nutrients like vitamin D, all in that blood kit. In fact, this blood work can typically cost anywhere from double to triple this amount. If you want to do this now, it's only $79 for a very limited time. It's our lowest price ever. And with it also comes A 1-hour consultation, so you'll have real answers in hand. Again, that's healyourselvesbook.com. Just want to say thank you so much. I appreciate your support.

You know, when some people come in and they really have a lot of issues with their gut, we can see this in many different ways. As you know, when somebody comes in and they have skin issues, or they come in and they have brittle nails, or they come in and they have a lot of malaise and many, many different signs and symptoms, I see more symptomology from people with Crohn's and colitis and irritable bowel and all these other things. One of the— this is gonna seem so simple, but one of the things that really helps these patients is when they stop eating raw things, like raw vegetables.

Yes.

When they start— and I know it seems very simplistic, but I'm telling you, it is a game changer. So, one of the things that you can do is steam all vegetables. Another thing that we find very helpful are healthy fats.

Yeah.

Why? Because it— one of the things about healthy fats, not only does it help that lining around the cells, it makes cells— you want to think about cells as being like a river and not like a swamp. And so when you have those healthy fats in your body, your cells do this instead of get stuck and they make for healthier blood, they make for healthier organs. So one of the things that we do to keep those tentacles, to keep that gut really locked, locked and barreled is those healthy fats. But I like things like tallow, you know, the beef fat. I like duck fat. Duck fat has a profile that's incredible. I mean, duck fat is beautiful for the body. And the fats that we already know about, things like grass-fed butter and olive oil when the smoke point is right. All of these things make And those can make a very big difference in the patients that I've seen that have irritable bowel. There's also some probiotics. Probiotics are tricky. There's— and the thing about probiotics is, it's very interesting, because there's probiotics that are specific for specific things in your body.

Right. Yeah.

So if somebody comes in and they've had a lot of antibiotics, there's actually probiotics that are very helpful and specific for that. If somebody comes in and they have a skin issue, there's probiotics that are actually specific for that.

Right.

Which is very interesting, I think. But I would say one of the best things that you can do is when you get to the point where your gut's starting to heal and those, you're starting to get that, that microbe balance, because everyone thinks it's the bad not outrunning the good. No, it's about balance.

Okay?

So when you start getting more of that balance in there, fermented foods, I hope everyone watching, listening, that if there's one thing that they'll take from our conversation is to put a really good fermented food into your diet, because that is the best food for your gut. It is incredible. I would say bone broth, collagen, fermented foods, really healthy, healthy fats, great proteins. And when you're ready—

Mm-hmm.

Colorful vegetables, because colorful vegetables get to that diversity.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. You know, I think I remember when I first moved to Nashville and opened my practice, that was end of 2007, then 2008, I started working with a lot of children who had autistic spectrum disorders. And, and I was trying to figure out what is the best diet for them. And I came across a book. I came across the Weston A. Price Foundation. Yeah, this is before even while I was in school, I was reading up all on everything that they had. And then I started these kids on the GAPS diet.

Yeah.

And that is so much probably in line. If I think about one diet very in line with what you're talking about, it's probably one of the closest, if not the closest, where the idea here— and the idea is this, is that you want to do what's easiest on the body and what the body can most easily digest and assimilate, because raw foods, to your point, are so hard on the body to digest versus if you're doing predominantly soups and certain other foods. For example, like in Chinese medicine, they'll tell you don't eat raw fruit, but like bake apple and pears.

Yes, I'm a firm believer in that. And I've seen that in— so we try so hard. I had someone that came in and she had irritable bowel. And people come in with the very best intentions. She said, I went all raw, I'm only having, you know, raw vegetables. Do you see that a lot? Because that's like the highest level of healing that they see. Well, I'm only gonna have fruits and vegetables. And it's disappointing to them when I have to say that's probably the polar opposite.

Right.

And again, it goes back to the yin and yang in Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine, I mean, they have it figured out. Thousands of years of diagnostics. Like, I don't— I mean, Chinese medicine to me is one of the foundational— I mean, they look at the tongue, they can see an organ. They can actually— like, how many places in your body can you actually look at an organ to hear it, to feel a pulse, and to know what's happening? So a lot of what they do in Chinese medicine in terms of foods and that yin and that yang and that cold and that heat and all of that, it goes a long way in helping people with digestive issues. And unfortunately, I've seen more digestive issues now, or hear about it more than ever. And I would love to know from you, not to flip the interview, but why do you think that this is?

Well, you're saying in terms of why the cooked foods or why the—

Well, why people in general now have more digestive issues than I've ever seen.

Well, I think number one is chronic stress. I just think we're so busy. I think it's phones, to be quite honest.

Oh.

Like, if you're— if you are like— we used to be, hey, you were waiting in line at the supermarket, or you were, I don't, I don't know, doing something like you— your brain wasn't on. You actually had time to reset, relax. If you're on your phone, you're more in a fight-or-flight state, especially if you're scrolling. I mean, there's studies on this. So again, if you have this dopamine being released and these hormones being released at that time, Your body is not resting. I mean, part of what it takes to heal is rest, your mind being turned off, getting cortisol down. So, I really think it's technology and just using it too much, especially at night. So, I think that whole imbalance of the circadian rhythms and cortisol, I mean, this all works like a domino effect, a cascade where it's like, okay, well, now we knocked over the cortisol domino, that's too high. Well, now insulin's high. Well, now estrogen, Testosterone can be high. Progesterone now drops and then testosterone drops.

Exactly how it works.

And then now your thyroid hormones are off. So all that being said, I think that's the single biggest driver. And then I think just because of that too, people become more susceptible to mold in homes and parasites. There's more travel. People are not— I mean, it used to be where people would be born in one place and they would eat the food from that region and their gut microbiome would get used to breaking down those types of foods. So if you go and eat a food you've never eaten and your microbiome does not have the bacteria to break down, it's much harder on the digestive tract. So I think, I think there's numerous elements. And I could also say glyphosate. I mean, it's everywhere, golf courses and, and lawns and all over.

Evolution. It's the evolution of life and where, you know, because it's interesting that you said about culturally, you know, we have these indigenous foods that we're used to eating. And when we step outside of that, your, your body says, wait a minute, where, where's the bacteria? Wait, wait, I gotta figure this out now. Yeah. And it halts everything. And, and so when things are halted, that's when things get fermented, or you have dysbiosis and all constipation and all of these things occur. But it's the same thing when I studied primal nutrition. And, and really, that was my footing, my, my roots from the beginning was writing 5 books on the paleo diet and, and really delving into the research. This was before ChatGPT, all this stuff. I was literally in my basement figuring stuff out with, you know, really doing the hard research. And it was Wiley Publishing, and you know publishers, they were tough. They were very academic.

Oh, yeah.

So I'm reading through and I'm pummeling through all of this. Just like you said about how when we go to different places and we try to have our body adjust, it doesn't always. We are still adjusting from all of these new foods and this new information that your body's getting. And that's something that we deal with every day. And there's a lot of And there are a lot of folks that say, you know, when things seem to go wiry in your body, you're actually— your body's doing exactly what it's supposed to. It's trying to struggle and navigate.

Well, here's something interesting. And you said something about this earlier about it's really not necessarily always about good and bad. It's about balance. You know, when I wrote my first published book, it was called Eat Dirt quite a few years ago.

That was a great book.

I came across this study and I found it so fascinating that people in Japan, when they're comparing them to Europeans, I believe it was, That they have a, a better gut microbiome, more specific types of probiotics for digesting seaweed and raw fish because they eat it all the time. Your body's always adapting, saying, oh, we're gonna do more of this in the future. We see this as well. Like if somebody goes from eating almost no fiber to a lot, or no protein to a lot, they get gas.

Oh, big time.

And it ta— and it happens. Now listen, 2 months later it'll be gone. And so that's why you kind of wanna creep it up a little bit at a time. Yes. And not just go from, you know, just overnight doing 50 grams of fiber. That's way too much.

Yeah.

But all that being said, your body gets accustomed to this. I also read a study about a year ago on pomegranates. And there's only about, I want to say, when somebody eats a pomegranate, around 50% of people take ellagic acid from pomegranates and they can turn it into urolithin A, this amazing compound for mitochondrial health. Oh, urolithin A, yes. But 50% of people can't do it very well. Well, in the other study it said, well, one of the best ways to increase your conversion is just keep eating pomegranates. Because it might start at 40%, but if you keep eating it, your body will start to— and if your gut microbiome is just relatively healthy, it will get to the point where you eventually, 2 months from then, have the right bacteria where you can make the conversion.

We always go back to these homeopathic laws. Yeah, we really do. It comes back to that. Living in London, they had homeopathic hospitals everywhere. And it was so interesting to me to learn about it. But this whole thing that you brought up at the beginning about like, versus like, and adaptation, really, so to speak, and your body needing this adaptation. So it's interesting. And a lot of people also have this kind of get-well hack where they say eating a lot of the same foods is something that's very healing.

Yeah.

So there's always this cross-reaction I have to that. And I know we're going to get to the microbiome, but really understanding that diversity is the most key element And having this internal terrain that's firing off for you and doing what it needs to do, it needs diversity, but yet there's other elements of the body that when you stick to static, more static, your body seems to respond really well to things like weight loss or to things like inflammation or to things like energy.

Well, I think, so here's the principle, and it, it, it's very much like working out. When somebody, I, I'll share this for myself. So when I had, I had a spinal infection a few years ago, didn't walk for a year. And when I started coming back, back, there's almost no exercises I could do. And so one exercise was I laid on my back, pressed my heels into a bench, and pressed up with a lightweight to activate my posterior chain, my hamstrings and other areas. And that was the one exercise that started getting me out of pain. But it was one total exercise. I couldn't bench press. I couldn't do anything.

Torture.

But then over time, I started doing more and more and more and more because I think our gut microbiome works the same way. Jordan Rubin and I talked about this a lot. If somebody's really sick, putting them on more of a mono diet. For instance, for one meal, you only eat a pear, and then you only eat an avocado, then you only eat a salmon filet, then you only drink a cup of bone broth, because it's the easiest thing for your body to do. And so same thing for kids. Honestly, it really goes back to this: eat like you're a baby, act like you're 1 year old, and then start to build out your palate over time. But when somebody's sick, the first thing you got to do is Protect and rest and allow it to just get back to sort of out of acute pain or dysfunction. And then I think you start to add those little elements over time. Like, you start with the green beans and avocado and egg yolk, and then you kind of work your way up.

I like Think Like a Baby. That's your next book. I like that. You got it. But think about it again, akin to how our genetics are kind of formulated or formed, if you will. It's that whole You have abundance, then you have scarcity, and then you have restoration.

Yeah.

Then you start to restore.

Yeah.

So I think when we just pummel, pummel, pummel, pummel, where, you know, there's some kind of evolutionary need that I feel like, which is why I advocate for bone broth, fasting, or fasting, uh, if your body is ready for it.

Well, to your point, one of the great things about bone broth that you brought up is like, well, it's, it's all— it's in a peptide form.

Yes.

And that just means that, okay, it's not even a protein. There's your shorter chains of amino It's easier to digest. Your body has to do almost no work to break down and utilize peptides versus— there is more work with protein. There's actually way more work with vegetables, which is surprising to some people versus meat.

Well, one of the things that sparked my interest was that when I was reading these books in the beginning days, it talked about Mother Teresa bringing the bone broth to hospitals. And here was the key phrase. to open the gut to healing. Now, had I not studied in Europe, which was way ahead, like you're young, you were young to catch on and really understand this, I would never have known anything about the power of what it could do had I not been a student of Dr. Thomas Rowell, this Paracelsus Clinic in Switzerland, when he talked about gut health, friend or foe.

Amazing.

He talked about all, and that's, that one paragraph clicked. I said, wait, what was that? What was that? And I read it again. Mother Teresa would bring bone broth into hospitals to open the gut to healing.

Wow.

And so the power, the power of bone broth again, and not to beat this to death, but the power of it is how many proteins do you know that do so much? Like you said, peptide. It's like people talk about peptides. This is the ultimate peptide.

That's right.

That goes in there. And it's easy on the body. And that's where the restoration comes in, because it's just easy on the body. You know, some things, Josh, just don't have to be hard.

Well, I'll tell you, I think, and this is something I see even more today than I think in the past, if there's been a shift in mentality. I think when I look at some of the more seasoned and wise practitioners, they treat the body with just a level of kindness and care and trying to get it to rest and sort of just lightly nourish it and strengthen it a little a little bit every day. Today, when I see some of these influencers online, it's like, okay, let's start doing an hour cold plunge. Now, I'm exaggerating, okay? But it's like—

But no, they do.

It's very hard. It's like, we're gonna go and do a parasite cleanse while cold plunging.

You look at that the same way.

And I'm like, okay, well, that's a terrible idea. I mean, the biggest principle, if you want to— this is the biggest step I see people skipping when it comes to doing all of these cleanses, including parasite and mold Strengthen the body first.

Yes, the pathways have got to be open. You have detoxification pathways. And even with GLP-1, you have to understand a lot of these people on GLP-1s, they have either— they're shrinking fat cells. They're shrinking fat cells, which harbors all of this detoxification necessities. So you got to always think about these pathways. And I know when you hear this, it sounds so like like painful and laborious. You're thinking, oh my God, what are they telling me? Like the people watching, like I have to go through all of that? But you do have these pathways and they have to be honored because you can try to do everything right, everything right. Again, the best intentions. But if these pathways, your circulation, your lymphatics, these pathways, if they are not flowing, and I mean, that's vibrance, that's real vibrance in a human.

Yeah.

When you're around somebody that's, you know, setting off electric, like she's just electrical, he's just electric. It's really having all these pathways Open and being able to open yourself to the wisdom that's before you, whatever it is that you want to accomplish, or you— whatever you want to do, whatever messages that you want to listen to and hear. It's really about having all these channels and gates open and healthy and being in a restorative place to do so.

Yeah. And just as an example, just really practically for people, let's say again, we've used parasites as an example here. Let's say, you know, you know that you've got these GI issues and it might be a parasite.

Right.

Rather than going really hard for the wormwood and black walnut, you're probably better off at first drinking bone broth and doing more of a GAPS diet, drinking some ginger tea every single day. I mean, bone broth and ginger tea.

Ginger tea.

I mean, talk about just the ultimate combo for healing your gut and like strengthening your body, you know, getting some rest, do a little infrared sauna. And then, hey, once your body feels strong enough, that might be in 4 weeks, it might be in 8 weeks, hey, then do the 2-week cleanse with the clove and the black walnut and the The chelating, the binders, and the this and the that. In the binders and all of that. Cleanse, open the pathways, use magnesium, do all of that, and then get back to nourishing your body again to recover from the detox. Because most detoxes are challenging your body and in a way eating up a lot of your energy, and you need to have energy to start with before you walk into that. If you're taking handfuls of supplements, but still feeling exhausted, it means your nutrients aren't getting where they need to go. And unfortunately, conventional blood work will never catch this issue. This new test completely changes things, and my team knows exactly what to look for. I'm currently offering a simple at-home blood test that actually tests for the right things— targeted biomarkers that reveal how well you're absorbing and utilizing nutrients, along with the key markers for hormones, thyroid, inflammation, and metabolism. You also get a full hour with one of my senior health advisors to review your results and discover how you can work with the Health Institute to finally feel like yourself again. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now. Hey, I would love to hear— I did not know that you were— you spent time in that clinic in Switzerland. What was that like?

Well, this was probably the pinnacle of my career, and it really taught me more than I've ever learned anywhere, anywhere in my career. So Dr. Thomas Rau, who is a profoundly unbelievable holistic medical doctor who gets how the body works and uses German technologies and a lot of Chinese medicine diagnostics you know, like having a Mora machine there, like all these, like it's nothing to them. Okay. They understand the pulse and the beat of the body to get the energetics back of the cellular system to heal things like cancer. And I saw it with my own two eyes.

Wow.

Okay. They, you know, you have to—

What were some of the treatment? What were some of the things you guys were doing there?

Okay, so let, let me describe that. So first of all, I was working with Dr. Thomas Rao with a group, a very small group. I was so lucky because, Josh, I had just had a baby and I knew that Dr. Rao was going to do this program for 2 years. And the whole idea was there was this woman in Kentucky, her husband was healed, and she was a very wealthy woman. And she said, you know, I am going to support having Dr. Rao come here and teach these American doctors in addition to paying for visits to go. But I'm going to have, have him teach these doctors because American doctors need to know this. So I just had a baby and I thought, gosh, do I do this? Do I do this? This is going to be a push. I did it. You know, it was that inner voice. That was that instinct that said, you got to do this. I am so glad that I did. So one of the things that Dr. Rao would do for— and by the way, he never did that again. He thought it was too, too much time away from his family, flipping back and forth.

Yeah.

So he decided never to do this 2 years again. So when we go into the clinic, he would do things like stick up a panoramic X-ray of the mouth. And he'd say, tell me what's wrong with this patient. He would talk about how dental and dental hygiene and your teeth and how it was so linked to the body. He would talk about things like different seasons and the behavior of your body during different seasons and the different needs of that body during different seasons. He would talk about things like— that would get— actually help people, things like art therapy. Things like sound therapy. He would talk a lot about lower. So you have to understand when this was. Okay, this was a long time ago. I mean, my son—I was pregnant with my son. He's 24 now. So this was a long time ago, and he—he would talk about things that we were not talking about. A whole premise was a lot about gut health. So I was talking about gut health or learning about it and understanding it in the early '90s. No one was talking about it. He was talking about inflammation, the way it impacts your body, anti-inflammatory. Foods and walking towards that life of being in that state where you don't have high inflammation and what it can do for your life. He talked just a lot of different things, and it was very nuanced, and it was very real, and it was very new at that time. But I know that you are a lover of Chinese medicine, and that's where I learned to really love it and how he used it for diagnostics. And he would do a lot with the energetic Energetics, and this is hard for people to understand that aren't, that have never heard it before, the energetics of the cells. So the pulse, the cadence of the cells, and what that means to the body. Looking at blood under a microscope and saying, okay, where is the pleomorphism here? You know, how are the cells changing? Or how is the blood changing? What does it look like? What should it look like? What are the interferences? It had a lot to do with what we call miasms or interferences in the body and where things are dropping in the body. So if you feel feel pain, or you have something going on, where is it dropping in the body? Where did it start? Very, very fascinating. And the thing is, is I learned in that study, that 2-year study, that we're not just skin and bones, that we are atoms and molecules.

Yeah, wow.

And we have an internal sensory system that's constantly communicating that we need to listen to, that we need to listen to. And then that's the system that really gets us well. It's that wisdom, It's spirituality. Spirituality is essential. And I, if I can just go off on a spin here. Yeah, of course. My son had a terrible acne problem. Couldn't figure it out. Breastfed, you know, all this stuff. I couldn't figure it out. But he was always that kid. He's, you know, working in Washington, D.C. now with the Admiral. He's always been like a high achiever. Okay, this type of kid did really well in the academy, went to an academy, like stellar kid. But I didn't realize that he was holding in a lot of anxiety and trying to achieve all this. He ended up getting very involved in spirituality. And I'm not pushing anything on anyone other than to say that you need it in some way. He started letting go of tightness, holding on, because everything constricts. We have to remember that all of these vascular systems, all these systems in our body that we need to flow.

Yeah.

Remember I said said, you want everything flowing like a river, not like a swamp, not tight. He started letting go of a lot and started being much more faith-based. Believing.

Yeah.

Believing. Having a whole different mindset, having a whole different belief system in the internal intelligence of the body and your ability to understand that, you know, it's already there. You're just grabbing the crown. Understanding all of this, his acne went Wow. Okay, this is a real true story. His acne went away. So that is how powerful all of these things are. So when Dr. Rao talks about things like, you know, doing music therapy, when he talks about doing art therapy, there is a reason for that. And he understood that. He understood that. He talked a lot about having life force in the, in the home, like pets, and you know how profoundly good they were for a family. Just all these kind of things. So it's not thinking about health, wellness, longevity, gut health, perimenopause, menopause, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. It's not one singular thing. It's like the moat is not one thing.

Yeah.

This is— there's a vertical to it.

Yeah.

There's a vertical to it. And it's beautiful. And once, you know, you and I are so lucky that we have been in this business for as long as we have.

Yeah.

I feel like now everywhere I go, it's all anyone talks about. Health, Health, wellness, longevity, like 12-year-old guys at the gym, at the protein bar, at the smoothie bar talking about, oh, did you do your red light? I sat on my vibration plate. Never in a million years did I think I'd see this.

Yeah, it's crazy. You know, I go back to, you know, almost 20 years ago when I started practice, and it is just radically different. It's in terms of how far we've come, in terms of, I mean, when I first started, When I started doing nutrition, I mean, I'll say this, 99% of medical doctors thought that practicing nutrition was absolutely useless. I mean, now it's probably 50%. So I mean, it's like—

Absolutely useless. Okay. So I had one patient, another funny patient story. I had one patient who came in and this was a patient who definitely needed nutrition. And you have to really be able to evaluate this in someone. That's why I love I love that. I always say boots on the ground docs are the best. You have sat, you, Josh, myself have sat in front of people, heard their stories, put the algorithms together to know what works, what doesn't work to the best of your ability. It's a very different thing than just coming up with a product. It's so entirely different.

Yeah.

And, you know, I had a patient come in and she definitely needed some nutrition. She's trying to get pregnant. She needed some nutrition. And so I put her on a protocol. And one of the things I learned when living in London is there were these places in London that they had set up that women would go before they wanted to conceive. And I learned a lot from studying that. And so I put her on this protocol. She came back her next visit and she had a bag with her. I went, it's never good when they have a bag with them. It's never good.

Yeah.

Because you're going to have to go through all this eval— something's going on. So she goes, my doctor, She said, I laid them out, medical doctor, her GP, and kicked them off the table, flung them off the table with his hand and said, this is absolutely ridiculous. You can't possibly think this is going to help you conceive a child. So that was the state of mind, which was pretty rampant at that time. It's changing though. It's definitely better than it was.

Oh, good.

Because my first— I don't know about you, the first half of my career, all I did was convincing. I was in the convincing business. I like to think of myself in the problem-solving visit business, but I wasn't. I was the first half of my career. I've been in this 30 years, as I said, for 15 years, Josh, all I did was convince.

So listen to this. When I had, uh, so my first practice, I, to your point, there was such a, like my, my number one goal was help people heal. My mom had beat cancer naturally. I started seeing people see healing miracles in their body. And the biggest thing I came across was, yep, people believing that that changing their diet or getting a chiropractic adjustment or doing a detoxification would help. So I did with everybody an hour orientation before they could become a patient, and they had to bring their spouse. And that was the thing, because the other thing that would happen is—

So true.

You know how many women came in? I'm thinking the average, a woman in their 40s, she wants to get her family healthy, and then she comes and I talk, and then her husband's like, you know, from home.

Hogwash.

Hogwash. Yeah, exactly. But then they would come and I would explain, here's our current medical system, here's how it works. Here's how, like, I would just educate them for an hour. And typically the majority of the time, the husband then was on board, the wife was on board. They would start getting care together as a family, and we'd see healing miracles of the mom getting off of their thyroid medication, the dad getting off the cholesterol drug, the kids getting off the ADHD drugs, and they were able to heal. But it took convincing and really strong education. So it became like the whole mandate for my clinic. It was like, educate, educate, educate. Because most people didn't. I mean, it just— it was such a battle.

That is such a good mandate to put into place. But now need not, because all of these platforms, like I said, I cannot believe it. Everywhere I go, it is the most— I mean, if you just realized, like at my age, to see this, it is profoundly interesting. And knowing, Josh, that TikTok is now the new doctor. You're getting that, right? Yeah, yeah, you're getting that. So, so all of the, you know, with everyone being on all of these platforms, the mom's on there, the dad's on there, the kids are on there, and, you know, they're all making their— I think the recipes and things, there's of a lot value. And I used to do a lot of television, uh, debunking these TikTok trends and whether they had value or not and whether there's something good for us to learn. But I do think I think there are some basic things that people are learning, you know, some castor oil packs, they're into that, they're into red light, they're into, you know, higher protein there. And when I started out and people talked about not having gluten or not having dairy or what kind of dairy, like a lot of Weston Price type of strategy, so to speak, nobody understood it, but they do now.

Yeah, you know, I think the biggest challenge today there's so much information out there. And the problem is that may be great for one person, bad for another. I mean, I think this is really where personalized medicine comes in and personalized nutrition, because everybody needs something uniquely catered towards them.

They do.

They need a specific nutrition plan, specific supplement plan. And I can tell you, because we have my clinic in Nashville, the Longevity Clinic that I have here, where I go through patient files, create their blood work reports, do all of Like, I have not had a single person with the same blood work as another person. And so every nutrition plan, every supplement plan is totally different.

See, I love that. And again, to your point, I don't think I always use how we're wired, how our genetics are as a starting point. Like you talked about culturally and foods that are to our region or to our genetics in a sense, like Italians maybe, or, or Asian people, or— that's a starting point. But if you think about the gut microbiome, and what's so fascinating is there's so many microbes in there. There's as many microbes as there is, depending on the research you look at, as many as, as we have blood cells, or maybe even more.

Yeah.

So if you look at that, and out of that, there's trillions of cells, there's microbes, trillions of microbes. We have hundreds of different diversities, and each individual could have 100 different diverse species in their gut. But here's the fascinating part. No 2 people have the same.

Right.

No 2 people have the same. So if you think about that internal fertilizer, Kind of the command center, which mandates so many parts of our body and so many things, even our brain health. We're finding more and more about the link to GABA and to serotonin and to dopamine and the magnifying glass, all of this. Think about that. If we're not even the same here, you have to understand so much. It's not what we eat, it's what we absorb, the nutrients we take in. That's individual.

Yeah. Cool.

So think about that. There has to be a connection there to need more personalization.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree. You know, I think too, listen, I do think there are good things. Like, for instance, another thing we— I've done with people is I think that, you know, I've created protocols for this for a lot of people. And I know we do this at the Health Institute too, is we'll create like, okay, a program for Hashimoto's thyroiditis, because everybody that has Hashimoto's thyroiditis there tends to be a lot of overlap, like almost all, most of them, all, all are deficient in selenium, deficient in vitamin D.

Yes, the algorithm.

Yeah, to your point, the algorithm. So there are ways you can do this more simply in terms of saying, okay, I've got Hashimoto's, or I've got a parasite, or I've got these menopausal symptoms, and there are key herbs, key supplements, key foods that'll help those people. I, I do wanna dive into menopause hormones.

Sure.

For a little bit for women. Um, what have you seen in terms of foods and supplements and just generally even, even other treatments Sure. Most help women going through perimenopause and menopause.

Here's the fascinating— I'll just give you the overriding fruit here, and then we'll go into it. But there are some women— so if you are somebody that's suffering with hot flashes, one of the most perplexing and interesting discoveries I've had in women, and even in myself, and looking and monitoring differences, because I've been through all of the marks, the markers of perimenopause and menopause. Some women have hot flashes and some women don't. So let's just stop there and think about that. So that means that we're not genetically wired to have hot flashes if some do and some don't, which is a very interesting point. So the correlation, because I'm bringing this up because I think that's where the most suffering comes from. Women are very uncomfortable.

Yep.

The 2 patterns that I find that women most uncomfortable with are sleep patterns And hot flashes.

Yeah.

So hot flashes, there is such a link to the HPA axis. So what does that mean? That means that your stress control system, we call it the HPA axis. And when that axis is thrown out of whack, you have more intense hot flashes. And so to put it in easier terms, cortisol. So cortisol is a big strike point for women. And so what we can do is anything that modifies your stress that's possible. I'll tell you a supplement that's very helpful, or I should say remedy, saffron.

Yes.

Saffron is monster good. If you are someone that's listening that suffers from hot flashes, hear me and hear me now. Now, saffron is exquisite. It does such a good job at calming and quelling all of the points in your body which exacerbate hot flashes. The other thing that exacerbates it, like I don't drink any alcohol. I wouldn't. And I think that there's a certain time, and I had my fun. I just want you to know that I have my fun. Okay? Okay. So I don't have angel wings. Okay? I've had my fun. But a woman who reaches the precipice of having her estrogen start to drop and start to notice these different digestive functionalities. Because when we start getting older, as does your estrogen drop, so does your digestion slow. This is a natural metabolic function. Natural metabolic function. So alcohol will pummel that. And I hate to say this, this was like me putting people on an anti-inflammatory protocol, the 21-Day Bone Broth Diet. This was like me trying to reset people's metabolism. and telling them no wine. And it was when I started doing that with patients, I had no idea how many people drank wine at night. And I get the self-medication. I get how life beats you down. Let's not act like it doesn't.

Yeah.

Life is not a straight line. Life is very all over the map. And sometimes people reach to wine or other alcohol, not because they're out partying, but they're using it as self-medication. Please understand I have a heart for that. I truly, truly do. But if you are someone who is suffering with menopause, perimenopause, it's got to go.

Mm-hmm.

And one sip of alcohol for most women in perimenopause or menopause, and I hate to say it because it's such a boring truth, but even one sip often sets the signaling off in the body where you're up all night or you fall asleep for 2 hours and that's That's it. That's all she wrote. So one of the things for the uncomfortable symptom of hot flash is that HPA axis, which is the control center of your body, the stress control center. We've got to do something to get that center where your levels are low. You've got— that cortisol is not whacked out. I promise you, it will make such a difference. And one of the things that you might want to study for anyone watching, listening, is Japanese culture. They don't have hot flashes. Did you know that?

Yeah.

What?

Yeah.

Okay, so how do you make sense of that? So I know I like best practices. So if I was somebody that didn't— that had hot flashes, I'd be saying, what does the Japanese doing? I mean, fermented foods is something that they abide by on a big, big, big level. So if I were a woman with hot flashes, I probably would listen to Dr. Kellyann and just do a test and see alcohol versus no alcohol, see what it does. I would start looking at calming down. my stress control center, my HPA axis, maybe have a little bit of saffron. You know, saffron's extremely expensive, but it's very efficacious. It works really well. And, you know, all these things, they play in.

Yeah. Well, I think Japanese culture too, it's just, it's just, it's more relaxed. I mean, I think, well, and by the way, that's not true across the board. That's true in Okinawa. That may not be true. That may not be true in some of the bigger cities there. But I do think that, you know, when I look at their diet, I just read this study. I think it's somewhere like 68% of people in Japan drink green tea every day.

Every day.

I mean, that's crazy. They said over 80% drink it every week. I mean, they have somewhere like, it's like 99,000 centenarians.

Wow.

So there are 100,000 centenarians in Japan. They eat a lot of sweet potato, a lot of fish, a lot of fish broth, a lot of seaweed, Um, you know, these are all prebiotics though.

Are you getting the picture?

Yeah.

Like a lot of this. So it goes back to that basic premise that we were talking about. It's these healthy fats that make a huge difference. Everything that you're talking about, you're getting the right kind of fats, you're getting that fermentation. It's all very, very clear to me.

Yeah.

It's all very clear. So, you know, look at that best practice and see how that can make a difference. Uh, and also one of the supplements that I really stand by is magnesium at night.

Yeah.

I think magnesium at night really does make a difference. And again, test it on yourself, you know, do your own test and get a high-quality magnesium and see what that can do for you. I think that it's good to have those levels proper anyway. You want to have a good magnesium level. It's because it's, again, it controls so many different things that taking it at night is a good idea.

You know, so something I think I picked up from you today is when you're talking about people seeing results in their health overall, There's really 2 main systems you want to look at. Again, this is me summarizing what I'm picking up from you. The first brain and the second brain. Your brain really tied to cortisol release, this HPA axis, really where it starts. Keeping that— you've talked about spiritual health and balance there. Saffron, of course, that impacts mood positively. Magnesium really does both. It is a gut tonic for constipation and it supports relaxation. So, there's brain and then gut health, right? We've talked a lot about bone broth. You've talked about fermented foods. You've talked about ginger. You've talked about all of these different things collectively. And I really think that if you can focus on, and 2 hormones to be conscious of, cortisol and insulin. I mean, if you can fix cortisol and insulin—

Bravo, bravo, bravo. Okay, these are 2, I mean, and insulin, that's the only reason why when I talk about fasting, and I wanna make this clear, it's not for everyone. And I understand that, it's not for everyone. But when you're talking about, again, a water fast, you're talking about going to that deep state of autophagy, as we call it, which is like hitting the compost button in your body, you have to be ready. One has to be ready for that.

Yeah.

But if you do something like bone broth fasting, and it's almost like an intermittent fast with bone broth, and you do that cadence, that timing where, you know what, I'm going to eat 8 hours or 6 hours, whatever it is that works for you, and that's the only time I'm going to eat, what happens is you become metabolically flexible. That insulin that we talk about, that hormone, You got to fix it. Because if you go to nursing homes, I'm sorry, I got to bring it down a little bit. But if you go to nursing homes, what you see are a lot of stroke patients and there's a lot of stroke wards. And you want to go somewhere sad? You want to— you want to get a real lesson on humanity and how you need to do your part in humanity? Go to, go to a nursing home.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And when you start observing why they're there, there and how the world, a lot of the practices that we have unfortunately are setting us up to end there. That's why listening to people like you, myself, the other health people that we have out there that has dedicated their life to helping keep you out of there. Most of them are strokes from blood sugar problems, from diabetes. Yeah. So fix it.

You know, as I've looked at, I mean, now just this year alone, hundreds of different blood work reports, I have almost never seen a high ApoB, high LDL, one of those, without an issue with fasting glucose or A1C levels, without blood sugar being high. I mean, almost every time. I mean, I think it's well over 90% of the time, probably more like 98%. If somebody is having an issue with their heart, it started from blood sugar. Take your point.

ApoB is something to really pay attention to. And I'm glad that we are having discussions about that now. And I hear a lot more longevity doctors talking about that because that inverse, you're right, it's very true. So I feel like we get so indoctrinated by watching all these videos and all these things on all of these platforms, and I love how you broke it down. So let's just step back and let's make this easy. The first thing that you have to fix is your metabolic system. And the easiest way in which to do that is to pay attention to cortisol and pay attention to insulin.

Yeah. Yeah. And these come from daily health practices. You're waking up in the morning, spending time in prayer and gratitude, or just going on a walk, but doing some things. Having some margin in your day and week to where you're not doing something every moment. You have time for you, time for relaxation, and just time to have fun. So I think that's a good thing.

I actually think that's incredibly important what you said about starting with some kind of faith. I don't care what that faith is. If you're listening to certain music that puts you in a faith space, but your cells do resonate accordingly. Let me just say that. that. So one of the best places that you can put your body is in a grateful state. And it's not always easy just to be there.

Yeah.

And people just say, what do you— you have to work at it. To be grateful when life can beat you down, you actually— it has to be a practicum. You actually have to make this a foundational, an intentional foundational point of your day. So as soon as your feet hit the floor, it's what I tell my boys, Let's just get it done right away. So make it a practice that that stimuli of your feet hitting the floor is when you say, I'm grateful, here are 3 things.

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. Yeah, I just try, I try and do the very similar thing, like go on a walk in the morning and then, yes. I mean, music can change this for you probably faster than anything if you put on a positive, yes, Christian song or some sort of song that's very uplifting and then have that gratitude practice on a 10, 15-minute walk in the morning. I mean, that's a, but it's important, you know, when I think about when my days are going the best and I'm being the best dad I can and the best best husband I can and the best leader I can and the best doctor I can. Yes. I am starting with that practice in the morning. And then to your point as well, it's eating clean, it's eating more protein, more fiber, more probiotic-rich foods, more healthy fats. These things that really help set insulin, you know, the right course for insulin for the rest of the day.

And you just have to learn it. And once you get the system down, you get the patterning down, then it's not hard. You're just doing it. It's who you are. And then that's when the joy starts to come in. Then you can start opening yourself up because your body is starting to heal and starting to restore. And then that's when the joy comes in. Because we want to be in that, you know, more of a flow state. It ain't always easy. You and I have built big things. And we know what it's like. You're not always going to be in a joyful state. But setting your body up to be in that place where things become more rote, they become easier, allows you to start getting into that joyful place.

Yeah, so good. So good. So good. Well, Dr. Kellyann, thanks so much for coming on today.

Oh, thank you.

It was a beautiful conversation. I'm so grateful for you and all the great things you've done for helping pioneer and bring things like collagen and bone broth, you know, greater awareness there in natural medicine. So, so grateful for you. And hey, let people know where they can find more about your books and follow you online.

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram, Dr. Kellyann Official, just building that, and drkellyann.com. And you'll see me in grocery stores, QVC, online, You can't escape Dr. Kellyann.

So good. Well, everybody, thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Axe Show. Remember, each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles of how you can heal physically, mentally, spiritually, and take your health and your life to the next level. If you're watching on YouTube, let me know what is the biggest thing that you took away from this conversation today. Maybe it's a piece of wisdom that Dr. Kellyann shared. Let us know here and let us know, hey, are you drinking bone broth? Are you doing collagen? We'd love to hear from you on that as well. Also, don't forget Don't forget to subscribe. It's the number one thing you can do to support the show and allow me to bring on more high-profile guests like Dr. Kellyann. And also, then you won't miss a thing. Also, thank you so much for sharing this, all of you that are on mission with me. I can't wait to see you on the next episode.